if you could have had only one?

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red] i know to most here the comics are their bible. what if you could have only had one as a kid, either the comics but there were no cartoon, or the cartoon but there would have been no comic. which would you chose and why? also one more question, im sitting here watching excalibur, which version of storm shadow do you like, comic or cartoon?
myself i would go with the cartoon. its what made G.I. Joe to me. without it i would not have been a fan. the comics were good and all, but they came in way to late for me and i hate the snake eyes thing. even without the comics my joeverse would not change, the comic doesnt influence my world at all. the only thing they are to me are a great read and a place to get more background info of all the characters. as for storm shadow i dont see how anyone would like the talkative storm shadow of the comics as compared to the zen like storm shadow of the cartoon.[/COLOR]

[Uncle Flint]

I watched the cartoon as a kid and it brought the figures and world to life for me in a way the comic book never did. I didn't read the comic much as a kid and to this day I still haven't read the whole series. The comic's obsession with Snake-eyes and Storm Shadow to me seems stupid. It completely departs from what GI Joe is all about. At least for me anyway. I like the cartoon because it brings to life the world of GI Joe without saddling me with limitations like dead characters, love interests, and ongoing storylines.

It seems like most people forget that the comic and cartoon were invented to sell toys. Its not like a movie franchise like star wars where figures were sold to cash in on the movie's success. In GI Joe the cartoon and comics the story lines were designed to showcase the figures and toys that were on the shelves at the time. Hasbro is not limited, or driven in its product design by the mythos created by the comics. With that in mind I don't understand how people can expect Hasbro to make figures of obscure characters from past comics. That's totally backwards. People are wondering if Hasbro will make 25th Anniv. style figures of "dead characters." Hasbro doesn't care if Lady Jaye or Quick Kick died in a comic book 15 years ago. If they can make money selling the figures, they will.

[maxtype]

For me,I had the comics before I even found the toys.Now,don't get me wrong,I love the Sunbow cartoon,but the Marvel comic IS the Joe-Verse for me.

What amazed me most about the comic is I first got them when I was 8-9 years old,and they are exciting,gritty stories.But then,as I continue to re-read them as I get older,I find Larry Hama's put a TON of political and social subtext in the stories,just waiting to be found.In the comic we discover that the GI Joe team are sent to do 'Cold War' dirty work by people who don't care about them,and that Cobra is a parody of certain aspects of the USA's miliary/industrial policies.

To answer the second question,while Storm Shadow had a great 'presense' in the cartoon,I prefer the conflicted comic version.

[Jay]

Comic. Considering the advertisement it got before the cartoon came about it would've still been big, and considering it carried the line through its first year, and for two years where the only cartoon presence were five-part mini-series, I'd say it had the momentum to keep it going.
A clear lack of that stupid "Yo Joe!" battle cry (except on a rare occasion), a heavy amount of good characterization and some awesome stories made the comic so much superior to the cartoon, even in the later "[SIZE=1]GIJoe featuring[/SIZE] [SIZE=7]SNAKE-EYES[/SIZE] [SIZE=5]and NINJA FORCE[/SIZE]" era.

[Stormer]

Comics all the way for me. So much more depth to the characters, all the Joes fit in with the concept of an elite military unit (no cartoon Shipwreck-types or guys that just "tag along" who they meet on a mission, like Quick-Kick and, er, Shipwreck...). Larry Hama kept a consistent "voice" to the book, the continuing storylines let you care about the characters and what would happen to them next more, and it didn't resort to wacky sci-fi like Fatal Fluffies and Cobra-La.

The cartoon may have been able to reach more people and get more kids into it but it was the comic that gave the line its identity (without Marvel there wouldn't have been things like the well-thought-out bios on the filecards, and Hasbro hadn't even thought up Cobra at the time they were looking to get a comic tie-in) and kept that identity strong long after the cartoon had descended into DIC crappiness and got canned.

[lehsreh]

[QUOTE=Stormer]no cartoon Shipwreck-types or guys that just "tag along" who they meet on a mission, like Quick-Kick and, er, Shipwreck....and it didn't resort to wacky sci-fi like Fatal Fluffies and Cobra-La.

[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Red]
these characters were what got me into G.I Joe. if not for them and the comic relief i would probably still be collecting star wars. although not realistic shipwreck was one of the most loved characters and even now one of the most sought after figures. i also liked cobra-la, i know most dont. i guess everyone was growing up faster then me and wanted to see realism. it was a cartoon and a comic book and we were kids. will there ever be bravewave scanners and sepentors in real life. and the YOOooo JOE! although kinda stupid, its something everyone knows, the best battle cry ever. now you know, and knowing is half the battle,lol.
[/COLOR]

[Jay]

[QUOTE=lehsreh]
[COLOR=Red]
and the YOOooo JOE! although kinda stupid, its something everyone knows, the best battle cry ever. now you know, and knowing is half the battle,lol.
[/B][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
"Autobots, transform and roll out!" has "Yo joe!" beat by a VERY long shot.

[maxtype]

Jay,it's more like:"AUTOBOTS,transform AND ROLLOUT!!!" :p

[ender098]

The comics 100%. Like the original Looney Toons, they weren't made with little kids in mind. To me the cartoon was Lame. No one got killed, everyone shot lasers and the VOICES!! ARG!!!

I still see Cobra Commander and shiver hearing his shrill voice from the cartoon. I think his voice would sound more like Clive Owen or Colm Feore. Destro's voice was cool, but I would think he would have had a scottish accent.

Storm Shadow and Snake eyes were cool until the whole ninja force thing...blah!!I liked the Storm Shadow from "Reloaded". But that was the only thing I liked from that series!

[snakeeater]

Definitely prefer the comics, at least the first 115 issues. The cartoon did a great job characterizing a lot of people overlooked in the comic, Beachhead, Leatherneck, and Wetsuit come to mind, but overall I prefer the stories from the comic.

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=maxtype]the Marvel comic IS the Joe-Verse for me.[/QUOTE]


Agreed. The cartoon was always aimed at a younger audience than the comics, and that put me off right from the start. As for Storm Shadow, he is only a minor background character in my Joeverse, so I don't have a preference.

[Self-Modifier]

This is a very hard question for me. The comics are my preferred universe, because of the ongoing continuity, the convoluted soap opera antics, and the realistic depictions of war. However, a lot of characters were under-characterized in the comics, or seemed very similar (I find Flint, Duke and Stalker to be virtually interchangeable in the comics. Hawk too, to a lesser extent). I think the TV show's characterization of the Joe characters was a lot better than the comics', but I feel the comics captured the Cobra characters far, far more effectively. In my world, it tends to be TV show Joes vs. comic book Cobras.

On the other hand, I love the cartoon because everyone looked consistent (ie, they had character models that the animators followed in every episode), and while the comic tended to do a better job of fleshing out the characters, the TV show let me know what they sounded like, and that was worth quite a bit. Even when I read the comics, I hear Chris Latta, Arthur Burghardt, Morgan Lofting, Michael Bell, Bill Ratner, and all the others speaking the words Larry Hama wrote for their characters. Also, I can't read a Joe comic without hearing Johnny Douglas's and Robert Walsh's background music in my head. Plus, Duke had a way bigger part on the show, so that counts for a lot in my mind.

Really, I think both the comics and show did a lot to shape G.I. Joe in my mind and I really can't see either of them existing without the other. However, I will say this-- When I was younger, I loved the comics (not to say I don't still), but in my old age (so to speak), for whatever reasons, I find myself appreciating the cartoon a lot more than I ever did before.

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red]i agree with everything you just wrote self-modifier. i loved the voices and hear them as i read the comics, imo they were great, CC couldnt have been better nor destro. just wondering here, how old were most of you when the cartoon came out? it seems that most of you were already around 12.[/COLOR]

[Red Sox]

[QUOTE=lehsreh][COLOR=Red] what if you could have only had one as a kid, [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Because of the wording here, I must choose the cartoon. I watched the cartoon long before I discovered the comic, and honestly at that young age I probably would have been confused by the comic as it was a little more mature. Now if we change the wording to what would I rather have as an teenager or adult it would be the comic all the way. When it comes down to it I love them both for different reasons and I couldn't imagine Joe without both of their great influences. The toon for the fun characterizations and voices, and the comic for the great stories and realism.

[Self-Modifier]

[QUOTE=lehsreh][COLOR=Red]i agree with everything you just wrote self-modifier. i loved the voices and hear them as i read the comics, imo they were great, CC couldnt have been better nor destro. just wondering here, how old were most of you when the cartoon came out? it seems that most of you were already around 12.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I was five years old in 1983 when the first mini-series came out. I didn't play with G.I. Joes back then. I was all about He-Man and (the following year) Transformers. As I've said many times before, I didn't really get into G.I. Joe until I was 12 or 13 in 1990/91.

[yorktownjoe]

[QUOTE=Red Sox]Because of the wording here, I must choose the cartoon. I watched the cartoon long before I discovered the comic, and honestly at that young age I probably would have been confused by the comic as it was a little more mature. Now if we change the wording to what would I rather have as an teenager or adult it would be the comic all the way. When it comes down to it I love them both for different reasons and I couldn't imagine Joe without both of their great influences. The toon for the fun characterizations and voices, and the comic for the great stories and realism.[/QUOTE]

This pretty much captures it for more as well. Well wrtiten, Red Sox.

As a child I remember the show being on alternately before school or after. I would get up at 6 AM to watch the show and eat cereal, when I could have slept until 6:30 and still been on time for the school bus. I was happy when it shifted to the afternoon and I could watch it after I got home.

As I grew older, the cartoon still interested me, but the comics satisfied other portions of my mind that the cartoon didn't. Also, I helped my brother learn how to read by reading the comic to him. He had reading issues but would follow along (because of his interest in G.I.Joe). Eventually I made him read to me, and he progressed with his problems. The cartoon really wouldn't help with that...but it is what got HIM interested in the comic. (Well, that, and hanging out with his big brother... :p )

Now that I am "older", I still pick up and re-read Marvel issues. It is far more rare that I will re-watch the cartoon, although occasionally my 6 year old wants to see it.

Both the comic and cartoon greatly influenced me, or otherwise I wouldn't be typing this early in the morning. I suspect Hasbro recognized that potential sales demographic might have susceptability to variant marketing venues, and decided to use both mediums to widen and saturate the appeal for their products. In retrospect, that is quite impressive, all things being considered.

[Stormer]

Remember Hasbro went to Marvel to establish the comic tie-in before they'd even finished designing the toy line, as it was the creative-types there who came up with the characters' personalities, Cobra, etc... I do wonder if they would have done a cartoon just as early if the law hadn't been so strict at the time with regards to cartoon series based on toys. That was why they made such a big deal out of the animated commercials for the comics, which were created before the book had even been written but just happened to feature action-packed footage of new toys and vehicles Hasbro wanted to give a particular push to...

To answer lesreh's earlier question; the cartoon was never broadcast on UK TV but we did have quite a few videos released, starting in 1987 or so when I would have been 7 (Hasbro only started marketing the Action Force toys with GI Joe-style packaging and continuity in the latter half of 1986). At least in my experience, the cartoons took on a more mythic status, since it was rare that any kid could find or afford all the videos. It became more of an event when you got to see them, like when you went to a schoolfriend's house who didn't live close enough for you to just hang out with every day.

I'd been reading comics (British kids' humor anthologies, Marvel super-heroes and various toy/TV tie-in titles) since about the age of 3, and while I didn't collect GI Joe (or Action Force) comics until the late 80s I did have a few and always had more innate respect for their depth & complexity. I was also used to seeing comics as the "real" continuity, probably due to the Marvel Universe being from the comics before any cartoons, and also because of the UK Transformers comic which had its letters pages answered by "actual Transformers" (Soundwave, Grimlock, Dreadwind & Hi-Test, Blaster, and Ratchet once...). They would often take letters asking about contradictions between the cartoons and the comics, with the explanation that the comics chronicled the "true" account of the TF's adventures and the people who made the cartoons didn't tend to have the full information...

[maxtype]

[QUOTE=Stormer]

I was also used to seeing comics as the "real" continuity, probably due to the Marvel Universe being from the comics before any cartoons, and also because of the UK Transformers comic which had its letters pages answered by "actual Transformers" (Soundwave, Grimlock, Dreadwind & Hi-Test, Blaster, and Ratchet once...). They would often take letters asking about contradictions between the cartoons and the comics, with the explanation that the comics chronicled the "true" account of the TF's adventures and the people who made the cartoons didn't tend to have the full information...[/QUOTE]

Didn't they do that with Action Force comics as well? I have three issues of 'GI Joe European Missions' which are reprints of Action Force monthly.Very cool,well written-in some cases by people that write sci-fi novels now(I have a couple of those novels,set in the Warhammer 40K universe).

Anyhoo,I seem to recall Super Trooper answering the letters in one issue.Also,the Filecards and Technical Data they printed is VERY 'Mil-Tech..... :p

[Stormer]

[QUOTE=maxtype]Didn't they do that with Action Force comics as well? I have three issues of 'GI Joe European Missions' which are reprints of Action Force monthly.Very cool,well written-in some cases by people that write sci-fi novels now(I have a couple of those novels,set in the Warhammer 40K universe).

Anyhoo,I seem to recall Super Trooper answering the letters in one issue.Also,the Filecards and Technical Data they printed is VERY 'Mil-Tech..... :p[/QUOTE]
It wasn't a standard thing; the letters page, "Mail Call," wasn't answered entirely by one character (which is a shame) although I think with certain character-specific questions they'd answer "So-and-so says: '...' " Would that be Dan Abnett? I know he wrote for Marvel UK and has written some 40K stories. He's also still writing comics (often with Andy Lanning,) such as Marvel's current Nova series and other Annihilation tie-ins (dealing with intergalactic war, funnily enough...).

[maxtype]

Stormer,that would indeed be Dan Abnett! The old Action Force stories I have by him are awesome!

Like I said,I have a couple of his novels,but I didn't know he was still writing comics.Cool! :D

[Swindle]

past present future... cartoon

[Self-Modifier]

[QUOTE=Stormer]Would that be Dan Abnett? I know he wrote for Marvel UK and has written some 40K stories. He's also still writing comics (often with Andy Lanning,) such as Marvel's current Nova series and other Annihilation tie-ins (dealing with intergalactic war, funnily enough...).[/QUOTE]

I read a lot of Marvel comics, and until just now, I always thought "and Andy Lanning" was Dan Abnett's last name...

...Just kidding, but you know what I mean. I've never seen either of them write anything without the other.

[Stormer]

Death's Head II! I loved that series. Dan Abnett wrote it, Liam Sharp penciled it (at least at first)... and Andy Lanning... was just the inker :P

[Urban Saboteur]

Neither cartoon nor comic.. I aint bothered really.. I'm more interested in the toys.. give me swivel arm battle grip... Now!! :o