The Osprey

[Sonneilon]

So this is for you military guys who know what's up... I just watched the Transformers movie and the air force uses both Ospreys and Blackhawks. What are the pros and cons of each? Which is better on the field or for whatever reason?

[ender098]

Well, for starters, the BlackHawks Don't Crash!! They get shot down, though! the main difference is hauling capacity. A blackhawk can carry 8 personnel. An Osprey can carry 24.

[Bayer]

Here is an article about the Air Force issues concerning the Osprey.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1672497,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

[Sonneilon]

How about Speed and Manueverablity (sp)?

[viper08]

I saw a video once, where 2 Opsreys were flying next to one another and 1 of the engines from one just fell of. The other one tried to do some quick manuevering and then it crashed.

[General Jones]

I heard on the special features of Transformers that it can go up to 300 mph

[Bayer]

[QUOTE=General Jones]I heard on the special features of Transformers that it can go up to 300 mph[/QUOTE]

The attached document is a specification/history sheet of the V-22. Also included is a line drawing of the V-22 Osprey.

Please enjoy.

Bayer

[Bayer]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]So this is for you military guys who know what's up... I just watched the Transformers movie and the air force uses both Ospreys and Blackhawks. What are the pros and cons of each? Which is better on the field or for whatever reason?[/QUOTE]

To answer your original question...as Ender098 says, the Blackhawk is a more tried and tested airframe. It has the benefit of a great deal of historical data supporting it - it is a traditional helicopter with a stronger powerplant and larger personnel compartment.

The Osprey is a more experimental airframe with the tilt rotor structure. There has been a LOT of R&D for the project and as the news will tell you, there have been some spectacular and fatal failures. The Osprey has the personnel compartment of a small airplane. The idea is that the Osprey shares the attributes of a helicopter as it can rise straight up and hover, but has the airspeed and stability of an airplane. Still too early to tell.

[ToneGunsRevisited]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]How about Speed and Manueverablity (sp)?[/QUOTE]
The Osprey is a Helo and a airplane. He get the best of both worlds: speed (better than an helo) and places to land and take off. It doesn't need a runaway.

[viper08]

[QUOTE=ToneGunsRevisited]The Osprey is a Helo and a airplane. He get the best of both worlds: speed (better than an helo) and places to land and take off. It doesn't need a runaway.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, as long as it can stay airborne! LOL!

[ToneGunsRevisited]

[QUOTE=viper08]Yeah, as long as it can stay airborne! LOL![/QUOTE]
And, of course, this MINOR detail too. LOL!

[ender098]

Another thing is COST! An Osprey costs 3 times what a BlackHawk does. I say the Marine Corps ditch the Osprey and for every one we WERE gonna buy, buy 3 BlackHawks to fill in. (I know someone will say now we need 3X the pilots, too, but think about it.....an enemy with a stinger kills one Osprey...that's 22 men....If the hit a blackhawk, we only loose half as many!)

[Bayer]

[QUOTE=ender098]Another thing is COST! An Osprey costs 3 times what a BlackHawk does. I say the Marine Corps ditch the Osprey and for every one we WERE gonna buy, buy 3 BlackHawks to fill in. (I know someone will say now we need 3X the pilots, too, but think about it.....an enemy with a stinger kills one Osprey...that's 22 men....If the hit a blackhawk, we only loose half as many!)[/QUOTE]

Here, Here!!! This thing is really a machine that has yet to live up to its cost, even on paper.

[Captain Max]

I had a couple of Ospreys fly over me a couple weeks ago-they LOOK good,but I worry about their ability in combat.........I think Frank is right about using Blackhawks or maybe PaveHawks. :)

[Bayer]

[QUOTE=Captain Max]I had a couple of Ospreys fly over me a couple weeks ago-they LOOK good,but I worry about their ability in combat.........I think Frank is right about using Blackhawks or maybe PaveHawks. :)[/QUOTE]

The one thing to remember is that there is only one gun mounted on the ship, and it is only usable when the rear door is open. Major weakness in combat. Sleek and sharp doesn't win battles.

[Captain Max]

[QUOTE=Bayer]The one thing to remember is that there is only one gun mounted on the ship, and it is only usable when the rear door is open. Major weakness in combat. Sleek and sharp doesn't win battles.[/QUOTE]

I agree completely.That's why I agreed with Frank about the UH-60's.

[ToneGunsRevisited]

[QUOTE=Captain Max]I agree completely.That's why I agreed with Frank about the UH-60's.[/QUOTE]
For the army, marines, navy and air force I'll not discuss. But would love have some V-22 Ospreys for my G.I. Joe army :D.

[Sonneilon]

Slightly off topic, but in Transformers, I was surprised to see a C-130 throwing down rounds from the side. (That was a C130, right?) I didn't know those big galaxy planes had firepower in them. I always saw them as transports, be it for vehicles or people. Is that correct? That C130s can have arms?

[bigtattoo]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]Slightly off topic, but in Transformers, I was surprised to see a C-130 throwing down rounds from the side. (That was a C130, right?) I didn't know those big galaxy planes had firepower in them. I always saw them as transports, be it for vehicles or people. Is that correct? That C130s can have arms?[/QUOTE]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130

First seen in Vietnam....

[Bayer]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]Slightly off topic, but in Transformers, I was surprised to see a C-130 throwing down rounds from the side. (That was a C130, right?) I didn't know those big galaxy planes had firepower in them. I always saw them as transports, be it for vehicles or people. Is that correct? That C130s can have arms?[/QUOTE]

Just a small point for clarification;
The "Hercules" is a C130
The "Galaxy" is a C-5
The "Globemaster III" is a C-17
The "Starlifter" is a C-151

Just FYI

[Mobius_1]

[QUOTE=Bayer]J
The "Starlifter" is a C-151

Just FYI[/QUOTE]
C-141 actually :o , and yes sonn, those things can throw down ALOT of firepower :D

[ender098]

[QUOTE=ToneGunsRevisited]For the army, marines, navy and air force I'll not discuss. But would love have some V-22 Ospreys for my G.I. Joe army :D.[/QUOTE]

Agreed here!!!


[QUOTE=Bayer]Just a small point for clarification;
The "Hercules" is a C130
The "Galaxy" is a C-5
The "Globemaster III" is a C-17
The "Starlifter" is a C-151

Just FYI[/QUOTE]

Damn! I guess I weighed in a day late and a dollar short! LOL!

[QUOTE=Mobius_1]C-141 actually :o , and yes sonn, those things can throw down ALOT of firepower :D[/QUOTE]

...and again...too late for clarification! I need to logon more!! LOL! But it's cool so many on this forum know so much about the Military!

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Bayer]The one thing to remember is that there is only one gun mounted on the ship, and it is only usable when the rear door is open. Major weakness in combat. Sleek and sharp doesn't win battles.[/QUOTE]



Well, if it's any consulation, a Transport ship should be escorted by Gunships. It shouldn't NEED to use it's weapons! Like all good tactics, COMBINED ARMS is one of the most effective! ;)

[Bayer]

[QUOTE=ender098]Well, if it's any consulation, a Transport ship should be escorted by Gunships. It shouldn't NEED to use it's weapons! Like all good tactics, COMBINED ARMS is one of the most effective! ;)[/QUOTE]

And like all battle plans, tactics must be adaptable after the first contact with the enemy.

[Bayer]

Mobius...
Thanks for the catch. I could have sworn that I said 141 but there it is 151. Oh well.

Bayer

[Sonneilon]

Thanks for all the info. I guess I could've looked things up on wikipedia but I find I'd rather here YOUR opinions and thoughts, y'know? Ok, so the C5 is the Galaxy. I wonder why I thought it was the C130. In any case, I have new appreciation for the Blackhawk and those big cargo transports.

[Bayer]

As I said earlier, the Blackhawk is "tried and true" airframe design. There is a lot less to go wrong (if that is possible with a helicopter) in the Blackhawk's design. It really is too early to tell what the Osprey's future and real capabilities are. For us military types...remember the York fighting vehicle and the M113 armored transport.

The M247 Sergeant York DIVAD (Division Air Defense) was a self-propelled anti-aircraft weapon intended to replace the M163 Vulcan Air Defense System and provide air defense capabilities on the field alongside the M1 Abrams and M2 Bradley fighting vehicles. While roughly patterned after an existing Soviet system, multiple system and design flaws and technology issues prevented the vehicle from ever being more than a prototype.

The M113, first introduced in 1960, fielded in 1962 in Vietnam. The vehicle named the Gavin Armored Personnel Carrier was originally developed and manufactured by FMC of San Jose, California to fulfill the requirement to be an "Airborne Armored Multi-Purpose Vehicle Family" (AAM-PVF) of all-purpose, all-terrain armored fighting vehicles as outlined by General James M. Gavin who was the Army's Chief of Research & Development in the late '50s.

Yet it remains in front-line service and production in the 21st century, and the M113 was recently declared the best in a television comparison of "top 10" armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles. Approximately 80,000 units of all types have been produced worldwide making it the most widely used armored fighting vehicle of all time.

It is possible that the Osprey will shake loose of its early stigma of failures and weaknesses and become a well recognized part of the military hardware in the world.

[ToneGunsRevisited]

Since we talked about helos we can forget to mention the Huey. It is a division: before and after the huey. The Huey started the concept of a troop transport helo.

And what about we talk about Hind-D and family?

[Mecha-Viper]

I like the Hind and still wounder why no US aircraft companies have tried to do something similar. i mean its a transport and gunship giving it the ability to drop off its troops and then provide close air sport.

As to the C-130 with guns, thats an AC-130 and the simple mention of that plane sorta makes me drool with the amount of rounds it can put into something.

[Sonneilon]

Anyone want to post a pic of the HIND and talk all about it?

[sithviper]

Here is a link to a picture of one at Wikipedia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Mi24CP.jpg/800px-Mi24CP.jpg