Bash The 25th and Hasbro Thread!!

[ender098]

With so many of us (Outrider and I) on here NOT impressed with the 25th in Particular and Hasbro in General, and everyone tired of us taking the opportunity to bash them on EVERY THREAD, EVERY Chance we get, I figured I'd post this thread where we could pull posts from other threads over and bash the uber-megaconglomerate that is Hasbro and it's evil Cohorts...Walmart and Toys R Us, this way the other threads aren't clogged with our rantings! ;)

So, to start, CaptMax stated this over in the questions to hasbro thread;


[QUOTE=Captain Max]

Really?? A multi-billion dollar Corporation that's interested in turning a profit?? :eek:

Why those evil Nazi pigs!

Come on! Hasbro has shown more love for GI Joe then anyone has a right to expect.They've brout the line back from oblivion over and over. It's obvious that someone in Corporate has a real love for the brand.

What other toy line allows a Collector's Club to produce exquisite and resonably priced versions of it's toys for fans? How many toy companie's allow fan-sites to submit questions about the line?[/QUOTE]

***SMIRK**** :o
I'm assuming the above was a joke, but if not, here's my counterpoints;

The problem is, they would make oodles more $$$ if they would listen to what fans want and quit coming up with this crappy off the wall stuff!

The reason they bring it back is because we keep buying it....no matter HOW Crappy it is! If you can produce crap and make a profit...wouldn't you? We need to hold these clowns to a higher standard and stop buying whatever crap they decide to mold and slap the GI Joe Logo on!

The collectors club "reasonably Priced"? Even with my membership, it costs $20.00 for a crappy new sculpt figure! And Con sets, you need a co-signer for! The only reason I like the club is they are gonna keep producing ARAH and Nu-Sculpt figures and not those delicate little 25th things!

Yes, they allow us to ask questions , to which they never answer and if they do answer, it's some double talk, like "It's in the works", "we're working on that" or "That's something we're considering". In 2002 when I got back into collecting, it took me about a week to figure out by looking on forums and Ebay, what would sell and what wouldn't......

And another Storm Shadow, Snake Eyes, Duke and Cobra Commander isn't gonna cut it!

[Da Talent]

[QUOTE=ender098] And Con sets, you need a co-signer for! [/QUOTE]

HAHAHAHA Thats funny ender, good one :D

[Self-Modifier]

[QUOTE=ender098]With so many of us (Outrider and I) on here NOT impressed with the 25th in Particular and Hasbro in General, and everyone tired of us taking the opportunity to bash them on EVERY THREAD, EVERY Chance we get, I figured I'd post this thread where we could pull posts from other threads over and bash the uber-megaconglomerate that is Hasbro and it's evil Cohorts...[/QUOTE]

Thank you! I knew there had to be a reasonable way to settle this.

[Stormer]

My main problem with 25th figures: the scale. Just when the new-sculpt figures were consistently coming out at a size that looked fine alongside ARAH, they scrap the line and relaunch it at a 4.1" (or whatever it is) standard.

My secondary problem, which stops me wanting to overcome the first one like I did with some of the giant new-sculpt guys: the mid-torso joint. Okay -- I get it, that real humans swivel in the torso rather than purely at the waist, but from an aesthetic point of view I think they're hideous. Everyone has man-boobs (the only exceptions I've seen being the women, Serpentor and Zartan -- apparently body armor saves them), seams/zippers/straps across the torsos are broken when this joint is turned, and most infuriatingly of all, none of them look like the 2 sections have been pushed together enough. They all have a figure-8 kind of thing going on, where both sections curve inwards where they meet, and anyone who does have a strap (Storm Shadow, for instance) continuing from one section to the next suffers from a lack of continuity -- there's a point on the lower section where the paint & sculpting ends leaving a bare area even when the figure's standing up straight. It looks like the ribcage part should be down more, overlapping the top of the abdomen section more completely, but every picture I've seen has this gap. The new Flash figure, previewed on yojoe.com, has the classic red body armor over his torso but there's a thin green band around his midsection!

I can't really blame Hasbro for not releasing 25th figures outside the US, as new-sculpt stuff had extremely limited releases and seemed to hang around & end up on clearance, so I realize it's a lack of market interest (although since they're treating 25th as basically a new line, maybe they could give it a try over here and call it Action Force again or something...) but the look of the figures puts me off even caring if potential customers or Hasbro develop any interest in having them on our shelves.

And all this is without even going into the reports I've read from long-standing Joe-fans AND people who were drawn to the 25th through nostalgic curiosity, describing the inability for the figures to sit, difficulty/impossibility getting some other joints to pose/move as desired, loose limbs straight out of the package, parts breaking with minimal effort, inability to hold accessories...

I wonder if the unavailability of the figures was planned by Hasbro, as I'm sure a certain level of people's excitement about the line, and their willingness to pay the prices they're charged, has come from their scarcity and the toy-hunt fever (that I'm all-too familiar with) which has built in people trying to track them down...? Like, if they were everywhere and there was no trouble finding every character, would fans be more discerning when looking at the quality of the figures, rather than buying one automatically because it was the only one they'd seen after a few weeks of searching...?

OK, I think I'm done. Nice thread -- it probably is good to have this place to vent, rather than having it spill out and stirring up negativity in threads where 25th lovers & haters might be trying to discuss the same topic...!

[Scarrviper]

My main problem is the new body style. Why go and change it :confused: ? The mid torso joint is hideous :eek: . At least with the old rah style everyone was in proportion with each other :) . I also think that it is bs that they can't make old style six packs like the TRU ones. Now the only way to get old style stuff is to pay master collector's outrageous prices for their exclusives :rolleyes: . While their figures rock,the prices are way too much imo.

[Outrider]

Thanks Frank, we gotta stick together on this one! ;) Oh man, where do I start? I believe everyone knows my thoughts on the 25th stuff by now, so I probably don't need to go into every detail again. I did give them a fair chance (bought both of the first Joe and Cobra five packs), and sadly they only confirmed my suspicions. I was very disappointed, not only with the new body type (chest join, head...urgh!) and fragility of the rotten things, but the cartoonish styling really blew it for me, a confirmed realism lover. I could go on, but you know the story.
Frank hit the nail right on the head...if we refuse to buy the cr@p Hasbro pump out, they'll stop pumping out cr@p. Hence my refusal to buy any subsequent figures until they revert to something akin to the quality of the "old" days (dream on!).

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red]ok, im not here to bash the 25th, as i am liking them more and more with each new figure i find. i love the poses they can now hold because of the added articulation. i do however have some problems with them that i wish they would fix.
the chest as everyone has stated, this sux big time. it adds nothing, i think it takes away from movement. bring the O-ring back, that would make almost everyone happy.
the new heads, although its not a bad thing in itself, it takes away our chance to swap heads with ARAH figures.
now, the arms. this problem is twofold. 1, there way, way to skinny. what, someone forgot to tell me that big boa and beach head stopped making the cobras and joe working out. fix this at least, not to hard to do. 2nd and the biggest problem with the new stuff (not counting the we cant change stuff with ARAH) is they still havent gotten the arms to bend to anywhere near a 90 degree angle.
im sure they'll fix this one soon as their going to keep the line going, but if they would make the heads changeable with old school stuff and bring back the o-ring, maybe even ender and outrider would have something nice to say. [/COLOR]

[Sonneilon]

My beef is the arms also. I wish they could bend at the elbow just a bit further so they can hold a rifle 2-handed, easily. Or well. Or at all, period.

I don't mind the lack of waist joint but it seems pretty lame that they DIDN'T ball joint it. Or just left the o-ring construction. Maybe it's easier to do larger scale figures or they are trying to move away from other 3.75" figures. ie; SW and BBI. Either way, I don't really mix the eras anyway so the larger size is no biggie.

I'm not really bashing 'em. I just consider it a different era just as GI Joe Extreme was a different era.

[ender098]

[QUOTE=lehsreh] i love the poses they can now hold because of the added articulation. i do however have some problems with them that i wish they would fix.
[/QUOTE]
What is this added Articulation I keep hearing about? Are we back to "O" Rings yet? (PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE!!!)

[LordRaven]

The only 25th I own is the Cobra Set I was GIVEN, and most of those have went right back into the box they came in. Stormy and Destro are ok, and have managed to kic around my apartment quite a bit, but, let's face, they is FUGLY. I know the original Baroness mold ain't exactly Maxim material, but this new one looks like a She-Male prostitute with rickets. Figures who can't hold guns, who's plastic is too soft, a genetically created WARLORD with a blank expression on his face like he's watching an episode of "Joey"....come on Hasbro...REALLY? Are you serious? You really wanna do this? It's like when the execs made this choice they had beer goggles on and went "Wow, you're pretty", woke up the next day to Snaggletooth, and still decided to have a committed relationship with a walrus.

Just my two cents.

[gogorobo]

when i got my Joe 5 pack the only issue i had was that Duke's arms couldn't really bend ,and then i got the cobra 5 pack and i was happy with it( even the tranny looking baroness :D )and even though i haven't been able to find many at my local stores the ones i have found i'm enjoying ,do i miss the o-ring construction ?sure but i'm also happy to be getting updated characters( snow job, flash, and breaker in particular )overall i like the 25th line and even though this is a bash the twenty fifth line thread those are just my two cents( please don't flay me alive :o )

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=LordRaven]I know the original Baroness mold ain't exactly Maxim material, but this new one looks like a She-Male prostitute with rickets.[/QUOTE]

Quote of the century. Priceless, Shane...priceless. :D :D :D

[silencer]

My Gung Ho doesn't stand up. I have him permanently posed like the poster for platoon. :)

[ender098]

One of my Complaints with the 25th is "What about NEW figures?".

Air viper? you Frankenjoe a gas mask trooper and give him a JUMP and it's NEW?
(gotta admit, I DO like the concept, it's the execution that is a cheap shot IMHO!)

Red ninja? Remember the BJ's special Red Storm Shadow and the Cobra ninja pack?

I know this is the 25th "Anniversary" and supposed to be nostalgic, but c'mon!


I keep hearing this;

"Well, ya know, I never got a Version one of ______, "
(add Duke, Snake eyes, Cobra Commander or whatever in the blank!!!)

To which I say;

"Oh, I guess you missed the Tiger Force version, the Night Force Version, the Battle Corps Version, the Ninja Force Version, the arctic Version, The Star Brigade version, the Collectors 2001 Version, the TRU Exclusive 1997 Version, the 15th Anniversary version, The Desert Patrol Pack version, the Spytroops Version, the Valor Vs. Venom Version, the DTC Version and the COMIC PACK versions as well?
What does HAsbro have to do? Buy it for you?"

GOD!!!

1,000 versions of the same figures and people want remakes of the same old figure....when are we gonna get fresh figures? When is Hasbro ever gonna finish anything? They need to remake the Headhunters and Stormtroopers....those figures sell for uber cash on ebay and you can't afford to army build them! Are we ever gonna get the rest of the Plague? Good idea, pi$$ poor execution!

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red]ok frank. i have to agree with you on the way they keep pushing snake eyes, duke and CC at us. everyone has to agree with that. the main thing that makes me sick, sure, its good if you didnt get a chance to get one version. that way you can get another. but this problem isnt a 25th figure issue, its a hasbro issue. it was the same with the last 3 or 4 lines of joes, everyone has to agree with that too.[/COLOR]

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=ender098]One of my Complaints with the 25th is "What about NEW figures?".

Air viper? you Frankenjoe a gas mask trooper and give him a JUMP and it's NEW?
(gotta admit, I DO like the concept, it's the execution that is a cheap shot IMHO!)

Red ninja? Remember the BJ's special Red Storm Shadow and the Cobra ninja pack?

I know this is the 25th "Anniversary" and supposed to be nostalgic, but c'mon!


I keep hearing this;

"Well, ya know, I never got a Version one of ______, "
(add Duke, Snake eyes, Cobra Commander or whatever in the blank!!!)

To which I say;

"Oh, I guess you missed the Tiger Force version, the Night Force Version, the Battle Corps Version, the Ninja Force Version, the arctic Version, The Star Brigade version, the Collectors 2001 Version, the TRU Exclusive 1997 Version, the 15th Anniversary version, The Desert Patrol Pack version, the Spytroops Version, the Valor Vs. Venom Version, the DTC Version and the COMIC PACK versions as well?
What does HAsbro have to do? Buy it for you?"

GOD!!!

1,000 versions of the same figures and people want remakes of the same old figure....when are we gonna get fresh figures? When is Hasbro ever gonna finish anything? They need to remake the Headhunters and Stormtroopers....those figures sell for uber cash on ebay and you can't afford to army build them! Are we ever gonna get the rest of the Plague? Good idea, pi$$ poor execution![/QUOTE]

This is one of my main irks as well. The 25th line is yet to give us anything fresh. I concede it's an anniversary line, but it's not yet 12 months old and we've had how many CC's, Snake Eyes, etc? But Hershel is right too, this was also a problem with the o-ring stuff as well. Hasbro's laziness is infuriating - "Okay, lets just change the colour of the paint apps on the gloves and release it as another Cobra Commander"....yeah, right!

New characters are what keep the line interesting, that's why this year's con set was so brilliant...NEW CHARACTERS...no CC, no Snake Eyes, no Duke!!! Personnel turnover is a natural evolution, especially in an active combat unit like GI Joe. Example; I've worked at the same place for 23 years, and out of around 50 employees, their are only eight or nine who are still there from when I started. Literally hundreds of employees have come and gone in that time.

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Outrider]
This is one of my main irks as well. The 25th line is yet to give us anything fresh. I concede it's an anniversary line, but it's not yet 12 months old and we've had how many CC's, Snake Eyes, etc? But Hershel is right too, this was also a problem with the o-ring stuff as well. Hasbro's laziness is infuriating - "Okay, lets just change the colour of the paint apps on the gloves and release it as another Cobra Commander"....yeah, right!.[/QUOTE]

But it's not just a Hasbro thing, people keep buying the stuff! I can't believe how people will buy whatever crap Hasbro slaps a "GI Joe" Logo on, no matter how Crappy! I hate to say it (and for the longest time I was guilty of it too) but some people are just sheep....blindly following whatever.

The ones that tick me off are the ones saying "Well, I didn't get a V1 flint" so they get the 25th version. I did the same with PDD! There is nothing wrong with that...if it IS a figure you don't have or need to replace! But then they go out and buy all 3 five packs, all 4 waves, etc, ad nauseum when they already have all of the versions of all of these figures.


[QUOTE=Outrider]
New characters are what keep the line interesting, that's why this year's con set was so brilliant...NEW CHARACTERS...no CC, no Snake Eyes, no Duke!!! Personnel turnover is a natural evolution, especially in an active combat unit like GI Joe. Example; I've worked at the same place for 23 years, and out of around 50 employees, their are only eight or nine who are still there from when I started. Literally hundreds of employees have come and gone in that time.[/QUOTE]

You know, I think they should use this concept to update "The Oktober Guard" . A new lineup with new Characters. And the same with GI joe. They can use the same Codenames, just new People. A female "Flash". A white Ranger who takes Stalkers place. Or a Puerto Rican Tunnel Rat. New names, new file Cards, same specialtys and codenames!

For Exapmle:


_______________________________________________________________
Code Name; MainFrame

Name; Nash, Franklin N. Rank; Gysgt E7

SSN; *** ** 9499

Primary Specialty; Tactical Data Network Operations

Secondary Specialty; Combat Engineer

Like the Original MainFrame, GySgt Nash did time in the Army (as a Combat Engineer). Swearing he would never re-up, the birth of his son drove him back to Active service, this time with the Marine Corps who thought his skills would be better used behind the keyboard of computer terminals. MainFrame has experience in Cisco Routing and Switching, Server operations, web servers and tactical microwave transmitters. If you have a calculator watch and a radio, he can build you a tactical network anywhere in the world. He's old, slow and mean, he never takes "no" for an answer and never quits. If his system doesn't work, he's been known to blow it up with C4 and start from scratch! He is qualified with the M9 9mm pistol, M16, M60, M67 90mm recoiless rifle Nato and Warsaw Pact explosives mines and booby traps and has extensive knowledge of bridging operations.


"No school like Old School baby!"



_______________________________________________________________


Ok, that was a little self-promoting, but hey! I needed to illustrate a point, why not make myself as a figure!

[silentdusty]

I thought this was the Bash 25th anniversary thread, not the pimp Frank for his own Joe thread :p

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red]lol, it was a awesome bio though wasnt it. actually a very very good idea of a way to bring some oldies back[/COLOR]

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=ender098]But it's not just a Hasbro thing, people keep buying the stuff! I can't believe how people will buy whatever crap Hasbro slaps a "GI Joe" Logo on, no matter how Crappy![/QUOTE]

A big part of the problem for sure! Back in the eighties I was guilty of being a completist, but when the line got crappy in the early nineties, I only bought what I liked and left the junk warming pegs. These days, I'd have to be considered a "minimalist", because there's not much that Hasbro releases now that I consider worthy of my hard-earned. :rolleyes:

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Outrider]A big part of the problem for sure! Back in the eighties I was guilty of being a completist, but when the line got crappy in the early nineties, I only bought what I liked and left the junk warming pegs. These days, I'd have to be considered a "minimalist", because there's not much that Hasbro releases now that I consider worthy of my hard-earned. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


We are soo much alike!

[silentdusty]

Yes Frank's bio was quite good. On the 25th side of things, like my tag says, I'm old school, I love the old figures and vehicles. I really thought the line took a downturn in the 90's, but it bounced back in the 00's. Now it's on a downturn again. Although, I don't own any of the 25th line, I have seen them, and while I think detail wise, they are very nice, look wise, I find the limbs too long and skinny, I don't like the upper torso turning, and size wise, I can't see them fitting in the old vehicles, kind of reminds me of the Sgt Savage line, where the figs were slightly larger. As well, are they even releasing any 25th vehicles, and why would I want to spend cash on vehicles that unless I bought the entire 25th line, I may have only one or two figures for, it makes no sense to me. BOO Hasbro!

[yorktownjoe]

This is a good thread to be sure. I am far more tolerant of the 25th than many others, and that's okay. But I think I am a minimalist as Craig has mentioned. I pick what I want and not what I think will bring nostalgia or re-sell well on eBay.

I like Beach-Head and was able to pick up a Firefly at retail. That is a solid sculpt, and although the paint apps could be better, I have a use for those 2 figures.

I am glad for the people on other forums who feel they need 5 of the same Zartan because his card is different, or multiple Snake-Eyes based on the color of his wolf. It's their cash, and because of Frank and other servicemen and servicewomen, it's a still a free country.

I am glad for those people because now Hasbro is going to release old school vehicles again. Some people will have the opportunity to pick up vehicles they never had, or could never afford before at retail instead of "well used" toys on eBay. Although some people will try and scalp them as well. Once again, it's a free country, and if they want to risk "investing" their money clearing out every Target within 250 miles of them, great for them.

When I picked up the aforementioned FF, I left a Cobra Trooper, two Beach-Heads, a Stalker, a Cobra Commander, a Buzzer and a Lady Jaye on the pegs for others. It is one thing to be caught up in the moment of nostalgia, and quite another thing to buy stuff that you never plan to use and hope you can gouge someone else on...

But you are correct. Someone will buy the good and the bad, and Hasbro's marketing/sales data will be skewered, if they look at sales numbers at all. And they won't understand what people really want.

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=yorktownjoe]This is a good thread to be sure. I am far more tolerant of the 25th than many others, and that's okay. But I think I am a minimalist as Craig has mentioned. I pick what I want and not what I think will bring nostalgia or re-sell well on eBay.

I like Beach-Head and was able to pick up a Firefly at retail. That is a solid sculpt, and although the paint apps could be better, I have a use for those 2 figures.

I am glad for the people on other forums who feel they need 5 of the same Zartan because his card is different, or multiple Snake-Eyes based on the color of his wolf. It's their cash, and because of Frank and other servicemen and servicewomen, it's a still a free country.

I am glad for those people because now Hasbro is going to release old school vehicles again. Some people will have the opportunity to pick up vehicles they never had, or could never afford before at retail instead of "well used" toys on eBay. Although some people will try and scalp them as well. Once again, it's a free country, and if they want to risk "investing" their money clearing out every Target within 250 miles of them, great for them.

When I picked up the aforementioned FF, I left a Cobra Trooper, two Beach-Heads, a Stalker, a Cobra Commander, a Buzzer and a Lady Jaye on the pegs for others. It is one thing to be caught up in the moment of nostalgia, and quite another thing to buy stuff that you never plan to use and hope you can gouge someone else on...

But you are correct. Someone will buy the good and the bad, and Hasbro's marketing/sales data will be skewered, if they look at sales numbers at all. And they won't understand what people really want.[/QUOTE]

Well said Yorky! You raised some good points that are worth reiterating. Like you said, it's a free country, so if people want five of the same figure because of minor variations, that's entirely their business, as it is if they want to buy everything and sell it on eBay for a profit. Personally, I've never understood the desire to leave stuff MOC or MIB. Heck, if I spend money on toys, I'm gonna use 'em! I guess that makes me more of a Joe fan rather than a Joe collector. The unfortunate aspect of this for me is that because Hasbro Toy Shop isn't interested in selling to anyone outside the US, I'm forced to deal with the scalpers or miss out.
You also raised a good point on buying what you want, not what might have a high re-sale price later on. People questioned me for customizing my M.O.T.H. sets and Con sets because of the effect on the re-sale value. Who cares? I'm never going to sell them anyway, so what does it matter?

[holesnipe]

I completely argree with you Outrider. So not much to say other than ( and I type this as if HASBRO is reading):

If Hasbro wants to re-live the orignal figures and pay tribute to the 80's then ARAH should be the way to do it, It baffles me that you put out a Con set in ARAH style ( A pretty damn good one) and say you are celibrating the line, then you don't stick with what made you successful "the ARAH mold".

I understand that a lot of the molds of old are missing, but think about how much would be profited remaking the molds using the more defined heads and sending them on the street. Look at all of us Purist that refuse to buy the new line. That's revenue lost on us. Bottom line, if it's ARAH style, we buy if it's not we don't.

If you want to suck me into your new line, then forget the figures and just start putting all the accessories guns, webbelts, helmets, etc that come with them, in a battle pack.

[Cobra Freak]

I didn't like the new 25th line that much when it came out and I was reading reviews and people said they were crapy. I just went 2 Florida last week and found a Cobra set I bought it and brought it back 2 the hotel and fell in love with them I love the detail and the figuers r great. Iwent and got the Joe pack and and they r really great 2 I then found some single packs I got 4 Cobras and a stalker he is my most fav fig right now. I do have a few problems with them though I dont like how they can't sit and how the arms go backwards it is very anoying and they dont hold the guns that well. but I really love these guys I do miss the o-ring and the 3 inch height they should of just kept the same size as the first guys. 1 of the best things about the cobras in wave 2 is that they have silver cobra logos it is a cheap way of making an army of viper pilots. Well thats what I think of the 25th line.

Cobra Freak :D

[ender098]

4.Ask them if there creative team ever comes to joedios.com

We check out almost all the fan sites on occasion, including dios. We
also keep an eye on the boards to hear what is going on. [COLOR=DarkRed]We just don't listen to this thread and the hundreds just like it. The 25th naysayers will shrivel up and die as soon as they realize we're NEVER gonna go back to 3 3/4inch ARAH molds as long as we can push crap onto the mindless masses of sheep that buy our JUNK!!![/COLOR]



:eek: :D

[ender098]

Maybe I should shut the hell up! I just checked Hasbrotoyshop.com and all but two of their 25th figures are sold out! :mad: :confused: :eek:


Or maybe they stock HTS like they stock Walmart, Target and TRU.....
Wave one 5 packs anyone??

[ender098]

And I thought I could tell Hasbro and the retail chains off;

http://www.joedios.com/dioramas/showimage.php?i=10488&postid=55137#post55137


http://www.popmatters.com/pm/columns/article/52258/how-far-will-a-man-go-for-gi-joe/

[ender098]

2. Are there any more popular female characters in the pipeline for figures next year, such as Jinx or Cover Girl?


Answer: Sorry, Jinx and Cover Girl are not in the plans for 2008... but we will see a new Scarlett and Lady Jaye, both with new heads.

Whooohooo! More Scarlett and Lady Jaye! Why on earth would someone want another Cover girl or Jinx? Both my versions are holding up well....I need another Scarlett and Lady jaye because my Version 2,147 Scarlett and Lady Jaye Version 1,114 are starting to get a little worn!

GOD! I hope they get me another Duke, Snake Eyes and Cobra Commander! I haven't seen a new version of those figures in DAYS!!!

Ok, let's keep score...Crappy answers (or B.S. Answers) from hasbro;


[COLOR=DarkRed]Q.. Will G.I. Joe expand into Hasbro's other action figure categories such as Unleashed, Attacktix, Titanium, etc.?

A. Great question. In the short term there are no such plans, but in the long term with the GI Joe movie we will explore many expressions of the GI Joe brand.[/COLOR]

ONE!!


[COLOR=DarkRed]Cool Toy Review: Why is it that instead of a 25th Anniversary comic-based figure pack we don’t get (at least once) a cartoon-based pack? There’s a great number of characters that showed a remarkable variant look on the classic cartoons such as: Ace, Cover Girl(MASS Device), Lady Jaye, Wild Bill, Sparks, Torpedo, Breaker, Flint, and the “Green Shirts” (among others) that would make an outstanding appearance as figures. Although they don’t have to come with a DVD, that shouldn’t be a problem since Hasbro has released figures with CDs/DVDs containing some of the classic cartoons recently.

Hasbro: We plan on officially addressing our stance on vehicles this year at Toy Fair. Until then we just ask that you bear with us.[/COLOR]

TWO!!!


[COLOR=DarkRed]Will there be any equipment packs, like the ones from the 1980's? With web gear, pistols, machine guns and accessories?

I think it is the Battle Packs I remember. Currently there are no plans for this. Thanks for the suggestion. [/COLOR]

Three!!

[COLOR=DarkRed]Is it possible to include a second pair of hands, for figures who have stylized hand poses such as Destro's briefcase-carrying hand, or Shipwreck's closed fist?

We will forward this suggestion to the design team and see what they can come up with in the future. [/COLOR]

FOUR!!!

[COLOR=DarkRed]When will GI Joe get the cute lil "Hero" treatment like every other one of Hasbro's action figure brands?

We are exploring different expressions of GI Joe as part of the movie line. Given the success of Galactic Heroes, Superhero Squad, and Robot Heroes we will look into this for 2009[/COLOR]

Five!!!

[COLOR=DarkRed]3. Any plans to include cartoon decoed action figures (green shirted Flint, hatless Lady Jaye with no cap) with cartoon DVDs as done earlier with the Joe vs Cobra series?


Answer: Great Idea. We are looking into this already and hope to have some more defined news at ToyFair.[/COLOR]

six!!!


5. Will the red logo, black masked, Cobra Trooper from the first Cobra 5-pack ever be released single carded?


Answer: Thanks for the idea, we will look into this.

seven!!!


Oi!

[ender098]

More bashing;

[COLOR=DarkRed]Q.. A follow-up to question 2. Are there plans to take this line as far as the original 80's line?

A. There is nothing we would like to see more than the anniversary line to have the same success we had in the 80's.[/COLOR]

yeah, we're just not gonna have a comic, cartoon, the TV Commercial blitz on every saturday morning..oh, and if you own old figures and vehicles, better throw them all out and buy our new $hit, because the new ones don't fit in the old vehicles........



[COLOR=DarkRed]Q2. Will any of the 5-pack figures be released on single cards?

A: This is something we are looking at for 2008. We want to offer these figures carded but at the same time we also want to offer new figures to keep everyone involved and excited. [/COLOR]


Like new and improved versions of Duke, Cobra Commander and Snake eyes.....oh, and we have a new Storm Shadow coming out....

Last "New" figures I saw were Major Barrage!


[COLOR=DarkRed]Q3. Since Lady Jaye & Serpentor are due out, does that mean that a character's current status in the comics doesn't matter in terms of their likelihood of being released?

A: That is true. The 25th celebrates the past 25 years. It is not meant to be a snap shot at this point in time. Nothing in the history of RAH is off limits. [/COLOR]


Except the molds and the figures themselves! And these new figures being compatible with the old ones.....


[COLOR=DarkRed]Cool Toy Review: What are the chances of a series of single carded figures based on the comic books? I'd love a 25th Anniversary styled Scar Face, Fred, Billy, Hard Master, Soft Master, and other origin Snake Eyes characters.

Hasbro: There is a chance that some of these will make it into the comic 2-packs, but unlikely they will be single carded.[/COLOR]

Are you serious? Why make these Characters? God, we have molds for Duke, Snake eyes, Cobra commander and as long as we keep repainting them and re-issuing them...the sheep will keep buying them! New figures...(*SKOFF*)!!


[COLOR=DarkRed]Will there ever be a realease of just Army Builders, that include six seperate yet identical figures all with the same accessories, without any Cobra Commander(s) or Storm Shadow(s)?


As announced at JoeCon we will have troop building packs at TRU. Some items will have 4 troopers and one character; others will have 5 troopers (usually 4 troopers and an officer) [/COLOR]

Yeah, we really LISTEN to fans! the answer would have been NO! We have NO PLANS for STRICTLY ARMY BUILDER PACKS!!!








[COLOR=Navy]4.Ask them if there creative team ever comes to joedios.com

We check out almost all the fan sites on occasion, including dios. We
also keep an eye on the boards to hear what is going on.[/COLOR]


yet we NEVER heard this on ANY board before;


[COLOR=DarkRed]Will there be any equipment packs, like the ones from the 1980's? With web gear, pistols, machine guns and accessories?

I think it is the Battle Packs I remember. Currently there are no plans for this. Thanks for the suggestion. [/COLOR]

[ender098]

One last one......


[COLOR=Navy]5. How do they decide on what products and prototypes they put into production, for instance, test groups, surveys, etc. and how can you
volunteer to be a part of it?

The Joe Team works with a variety of test groups to decide what products we put into production. We also have some of the biggest Joe fans right here in the Hasbro officers. But, Thanks for the offer, we know where to find you.[/COLOR]

Thank you very much for sharing your silly assed love of our over priced, shoddy products with us, but why on earth would we let our clueless, over paid, over educated marketing and sales research and development team be infected with a stupid idea like "What do you fans really want and what will actually sell!"??? They, unlike you are super smart, paid well and have no love of toys, therefore they will guide us in making the RIGHT decision on what to force down your throats, and line our greedy pockets, you mindless sheep....and don't forget...it doesn't have to be good, but Only GI Joe, is GI Joe...so BUY HASBRO!!!Or you're a traitor to the cause!!!


Sorry.....had to be said!!! LOL!!

[Outrider]

Stop it Frank, you're killing me! :D I noticed the same thing, all of their answers seem to be non-committal, and many of them don't even really answer the question. How many times can they say "Currently there are no plans for..." or "we'll look into that" or "many new concepts are being developed". Talk about a waste of time, it's like trying to get a straight answer out of a politician! :rolleyes:

[Da Talent]

lol your answers were much much better frank

[Sonneilon]

Great idea!











As IF they didn't already consider this. I guess it takes a fan or whatever to mention it and H's like, "well, there must be SOME interest..." Still, I'd rather see arms that can bend further.

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]Great idea!


As IF they didn't already consider this. I guess it takes a fan or whatever to mention it and H's like, "well, there must be SOME interest..." Still, I'd rather see arms that can bend further.[/QUOTE]


No shit! I took a class on "the Psychology of Creativity" in College and one thing we learned was that all good "think Tanks" brainstorm ideas first. But these guys at Hasbro have nadda clue what we want! WTF? Who do you have working in your MArketing Research department? Ben Stien? hell, he could get better results on what fans want than you! WTF?? These guys (i'll bet dollars to doughnuts!) are paid high 5 to low six figure salaries and are totally clueless.....

They say "We also have some of the biggest Joe fans right here in the Hasbro officers" GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK!!! What kind of fans doesn't know we been screaming for accessory packs since they quit selling them in what? 86? You're right Craig, these PR guys are Lawyers and Politicians......

That's why the 3 out of the last 4 purchases for my collection haven't been GI Joe OR Hasbro (Chap Mei, Sub 5 figures and the Elite forces truck...the fourth was the Iron Mechs!) They don't listen...they don't care and for being in charge of a line of toys, they act like even tey don't know what's goin on!!

[Hammerfel]

I wonder if they do visit JoeDios...

[Hammerfel]

Hmmm... I just checked and we have no registered members with "hasbro" in their email address. :(

[Urban Saboteur]

Just because they aint registered doesn't mean to say they don't visit.

I wholeheartedly agree with Frank & Outrider.. bottom line is if fans stopped buying the pish they released.. they'd either close the line down alltogether or go back to o-ring.
I still think the main problem here is that most fans/collectors are pushed and driven by the hype of the line and the notoriety of getting hold of certain figures.

I'm also kind of like frank in the sense my last lot of purchases hasn't been GIJOE either. I figure i'd only be supporting something financially i don't agree with or like.

I have been however working on some RAH customs. :o

[lehsreh]

[QUOTE=Urban Saboteur]
I wholeheartedly agree with Frank & Outrider.. bottom line is if fans stopped buying the pish they released.. they'd either close the line down alltogether or go back to o-ring.
I still think the main problem here is that most fans/collectors are pushed and driven by the hype of the line and the notoriety of getting hold of certain figures.
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Red]
i dont buy them because of the hype, i buy them because i like the 25th. i now have some joes i never saw as a kid. and even though they do have problems, i would rather have new figures that i like with a few mistakes, then none at all.

by the way, if anyone hasnt bought any joes since the first wave, give some of the newer ones a try. there much more playable then the first. they even fixed stalkers crotch a lot.[/COLOR]

[Apparition]

I understand where you guys are coming from, and mostly I agree. Unfortunately for me, I don't have any choice but to buy the 25th anniversary figures, because that's all the new stuff available. I don't have many Joes at all, and I can't afford to go on ebay and buy classic figures, so I have to save up and buy what I can, which is whatever is on the shelves when I walk in the store. I prefer the o-ring figures, but if I want joes, I have no choice but to buy the new figures. :(

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Apparition]I understand where you guys are coming from, and mostly I agree. Unfortunately for me, I don't have any choice but to buy the 25th anniversary figures, because that's all the new stuff available. I don't have many Joes at all, and I can't afford to go on ebay and buy classic figures, so I have to save up and buy what I can, which is whatever is on the shelves when I walk in the store. I prefer the o-ring figures, but if I want joes, I have no choice but to buy the new figures. :([/QUOTE]


I can understand that. The ones that kill me are the guys who were collecting since 2002 or so and passed on every version of the figure they are now saying they DON'T have. I can understand wanting a V1 Flint if you had one as a kid, but come on! The Comic Pack was a closer imitation than these gangly legged dainty museum pieces! Why these people passed on comic pack figures, VvsV, Spytroops, JvC and the 2000 Collectors versions to wait for these pale replicas, I have no idea. If you like them, fine, but to me, these are like Sigma six....they're just not REAL GI Joes!

I'm interested in seeing a remake of the V1 BAT. Now that is one figure that this mold might do justice! I could see a BAT being 6+ feet tall and slender. But I hate the fact that these figures don't fit all the old vehicles! It's like Hasbro is saying to us, thanks for all your support all these years, but you and you heros are uncool...you have to buy our new stuff to be in the club! Well......F*%k Them! I'm not buying another thing until they get the ARAH molds back...or even NuSculpt!

[Sonneilon]

[QUOTE=ender098] They say "We also have some of the biggest Joe fans right here in the Hasbro officers" GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK!!! What kind of fans doesn't know we been screaming for accessory packs since they quit selling them in what? 86? You're right Craig, these PR guys are Lawyers and Politicians......

[/QUOTE]

See, this is what I worry about. NOt so much if they are lawyers and politicians, but guys who are really narrow-minded about GI Joe. These guys are creating the JOeverse as they see fit. You get one head guy who is into the cartoon. You get another head guy who loves 12". You get another guy who came from Care Bears or whatever, y'know?

And just how hardcore are these guys? WHen did they come into the toy as a kid? If you've read old Josh Blaylock interviews, he said at one time that he favoried Lifeline over Doc simply because when he came into Joe, Lifeline was more prominent. And iirc, Blaylock and most of the crew were cartoon fans, not comic fans. So they had to 'reference' the Marvel series for things.

So when you get to the guys working at GI Joe Hasbro, I question just who their favorites are. It's entirely possible they are huge Duke and Snake Eyes fans, ya dig? Hell, you gotta wonder if the guys working there during the theme years weren't CORE fans. We can try and blame the Big 3 for half the figures made, but man...

Anyway...

Great idea!

[ender098]

Well, I just went on Hasbrotoyshop.com and looked for GI Joes. For a dying Line, Sigma Six seems to still be going strong! Out of 26 listings, 24 of them are Sigma Six! ONLY TWO of the 25th Anniversary Joe line sets...and they are both sold out! Maybe that shows how fast the stuff is selling out...or maybe it shows what I knew all along....if you want a line to die...offer it ONLY on your obscure website!

I see it this way, if the 25th is Suceeding, it because of the impulse buyers in the action figure aisles in the big three.....maybe if they had done this with the DTC line, I would be sporting my Munitia Figure and Cobra Officer right now!

Even if I WANTED their crappy 25th figures...where could I get them? I have 16 Walmarts, 7 Targets and 3 TRU's within 30 min of my house and all only have the 5 packs and a few hooded Cobra Commanders. (I know, because I've been looking for a IG Destro to do a head swap on my Pimp Daddy..LOVE that Golden Noggin!!!). I mean they're already on WHAT? Wave 5? 6? and If I WAS gonna Collect them, I'd have missed out on 95% of the single carded figures!

I hate Hasbro...I really do!







Oh, and checking Amazon.......

http://www.amazon.com/G-I-Joe-Anniversary-G%252eI%252e/dp/B000WI198M/ref=sr_1_93?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1199125809&sr=1-93

http://www.amazon.com/Hasbro-Joe-25th-Anniversary-5-Pack/dp/B000OKW1OE/ref=sr_1_97?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1199125853&sr=1-97

http://www.amazon.com/Hasbro-Anniversary-Cobra-Villains-5-Pack/dp/B000O80LPC/ref=sr_1_110?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1199125878&sr=1-110


Hmmmm...bad guys sell for more than good guys..interesting.....

And Smalljoes.....


http://www.smalljoes.com/gi-joe-gijoe-action-figures.shtml


Hmmmmm...most Army builders are going for $12.99 whereas regular figures (With the exception of Flint (WTF???)) are less than $10. Hmmmmmm.....Could it be that Army/ Troop builders are more in Demand??

Nah! THEY WANT COBRA COMMANDER, DUKE, STORM SHADOW AND SNAKE EYES!!!God, with that classsical bounding leap in logic, I should work for Hasbro!!!!

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=ender098] Maybe that shows how fast the stuff is selling out...or maybe it shows what I knew all along....if you want a line to die...offer it ONLY on your obscure website!

I hate Hasbro...I really do![/QUOTE]

Yeah, your obscure web site that isn't interested in selling to anyone outside the US, forcing me to buy at inflated prices from third party sellers, should I be stupid enough to want to buy the 25th anniversary junk Hasbro now makes. So much for being "global". :mad:

[silentdusty]

I hear you there Outrider, the only thing I can seem to find anywhere are two year old Sigma 6 figs that haven't left the shelves yet, and at TRU, a few of the 'new' Commando Joes (Rebadged Sigma 6). What did they think that nobody else outside of the US would be interested in buying the new line? I probably would have initially, now that I've read more about them, and actually seen a couple from a buddy of mine who bought a couple of E Bay. I won't buy them now, even if they do start selling them internationally.

[Outrider]

Hasbro has always ignored Australia as far as GI Joe goes. Even when the line was at it's peak in the 80's, we only ever received limited releases over here; mostly the single carded figures and a few of the small and mid sized vehicles, and only then between 1987 and 1993. Any of the larger vehicle sets, forget it! The only biggie they ever released here was the USS Flagg, and from what I saw, that was only in very limited numbers. :mad:

[Stormer]

You guys got the Flagg down under? Weird. I only ever saw 1 in the UK, and it was a store display for a competition to win one of like 7 the national chain had imported specially. We got most of the line (with a few odd omissions like Low-Light, Sneak Peek and Crystal Ball) and the larger 'planes, plus the MCC, but Hasbro apparently thought British kids had no use for a GI Joe HQ (I guess Palitoy didn't shift enough Z-Force ones), USS Flagg or Terrordrome.

And now, as with everywhere outside the US, the 25th line is deemed inappropriate or something, since it's collector-oriented and only the US has enough toy collectors to warrant releasing anything that isn't meant for kids to actually play with.

It's a good job the line is flimsy crap incompatible with the 25 years they claim to be celebrating, otherwise I might care.

[Urban Saboteur]

[QUOTE=Stormer]You guys got the Flagg down under? Weird. I only ever saw 1 in the UK, and it was a store display for a competition to win one of like 7 the national chain had imported specially. We got most of the line (with a few odd omissions like Low-Light, Sneak Peek and Crystal Ball) and the larger 'planes, plus the MCC, but Hasbro apparently thought British kids had no use for a GI Joe HQ (I guess Palitoy didn't shift enough Z-Force ones), USS Flagg or Terrordrome.

And now, as with everywhere outside the US, the 25th line is deemed inappropriate or something, since it's collector-oriented and only the US has enough toy collectors to warrant releasing anything that isn't meant for kids to actually play with.

It's a good job the line is flimsy crap incompatible with the 25 years they claim to be celebrating, otherwise I might care.[/QUOTE]

"Here here.. Sacrilege" shouts I...your not suggesting hasbro are ignoring us in the UK are you? :o
In all fairness i'd stand in line and defend hasbro.. but i can't.. from what we were promised in January.. they just simply haven't delivered.

And Stormer your right.. considering these figures are supposed to celebrate 25 years they've certainly made a complete goof up on it.

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=Stormer]You guys got the Flagg down under? Weird.[/QUOTE]

That's weird all right. We were deemed unworthy of vehicles like the Maggot, Mean Dog, Desert Fox, and too many more small and mid sized ones to mention, but they gave us the Flagg. I've never figured that one out! :rolleyes: :confused:

[Uncle Flint]

I just read through this thread for the first time and had to laugh. It makes me laugh that we (a bunch of grown men) can get so worked up about toys. And the animosity towards Hasbro really surprises me.

The fact of the matter is that the 25th Anniv. stuff is selling. Its selling better than than the last few waves of the new sculpt did, and way better than the DTC. The line was dying and they tried something new. It appears to be working right now.

We have to remember that the collecting community isn't big enough to support a toy line. There just isn't enough of us. That means Hasbro has to create toys that will sell to kids. If Hasbro thought that the only people who buy the 25th Anniv. stuff would be collectors, they never would have bothered to produced the stuff in the first place.

What I don't understand was the need to switch to yet another construction format. Hasbro has proved they can produce new ARAH versions of old characters in the recent con sets. They sometimes act like there is no possible way to create new ARAH style molds.

One thing is certain though: Hasbro is not trying to kill the line. With the new movie coming Hasbro is extra motivated to keep this line successful. The idea that Hasbro is trying to kill the line is absurd. But they also have no need to expand the roster.

[Stormer]

They already killed the line -- they don't make 3.75"-scale GI Joe figures any more. They do this 4.1" scale and are filling their new toy line with figures based on 3.75" Joes. It annoys me that they say they are "celebrating" the last 25 years by discontinuing it in favour of this do-over.

And if you read around their responses to the Q&As they've been doing, they've actually said that the 25th line IS aimed at collectors and NOT at kids they're trying to bring into the fandom. They've said in response to things related to the movie and/or stuff like "Galactic Heroes"-style figures that if they refocus the line's attention to include kids that'll play with them as well as collectors, they'll consider more options regarding styles.

I'd be very interested to see actual sales figures for the likes of VvV, DTC and 25th -- people say 25th is selling because their stores are out of them, but at the same time people are complaining about not being able to find them in the first place. If they're making them in more limited numbers and with more limited distribution, it's going to simultaneously give the impression of a high demand if shelves are always empty, and of driving up the determination in collectors to buy whatever they DO find because of the perceived value due to scarcity. Are they REALLY selling better than VvV did just because you're not seeing any hanging around shelves? What about the VvV wave with Torch, Bazooka et al? THAT had a more limited release than others and those figures have been in high demand, fetching high prices on eBay and such, ever since. If Hasbro is aiming this line at collectors, as they've implied, then limiting their availability like this is a great way of exaggerating the demand.

I don't feel that I'm "so worked up about toys" -- it's not like I talk about this to my family or non-collector friends. But this is a GI Joe toy collectors' forum, so in that context it's a significant issue for me. Plus, you have to take into account the considerable financial, emotional and time investments I've put into this hobby. To simply dismiss those would be to invalidate not only them but also any reason I'd have to need or want to like/accept the 25th line anyway.

It just upsets me that, one one hand, there's Hasbro saying "It's great that we made it to 25 years; we couldn't have done it without the fans," and on the other it's "Your previous patronage means nothing to us. Buy our NEW toyline, which is just BASED on the one that you've loved for all this time."

[Urban Saboteur]

[QUOTE=Uncle Flint]
One thing is certain though: Hasbro is to trying to kill the line. With the new movie coming Hasbro is extra motivated to keep this line successful. The idea that Hasbro is trying to kill the line is absurd. But they also have no need to expand the roster.[/QUOTE]

Uncle flint!! You just way confused me.. :confused:
As above.. You say "hasbro is trying to kill the line.. and then hasbro is motivated to keep the line successful? The idea that hasbro is trying to kill the line is absurd.. "

:confused:

I've seen some confusing things in my time, but reading this gave me a headache.. or is it the way i am reading it? Anyone else read that it says hasbro is trying to kill the line then read that hasbro aren't trying to kill the line..

I dunno.. :o I've read this paragraph 10 times and it makes absolutely no sense.. Heeeellllpp.. :o

[gung ho]

[QUOTE=Urban Saboteur]Uncle flint!! You just way confused me.. :confused:
As above.. You say "hasbro is trying to kill the line.. and then hasbro is motivated to keep the line successful? The idea that hasbro is trying to kill the line is absurd.. "

:confused:

I've seen some confusing things in my time, but reading this gave me a headache.. or is it the way i am reading it? Anyone else read that it says hasbro is trying to kill the line then read that hasbro aren't trying to kill the line..

I dunno.. :o I've read this paragraph 10 times and it makes absolutely no sense.. Heeeellllpp.. :o[/QUOTE]



ditto :confused:

[Flatline]

I THINK HE WAS TRYING TO QUOTE WHAT SOME HAVE SAID " HASBRO IS TRYING TO KILL THE LINE" BUT THEN AGAIN I MAY BE WRONG AND IT AS HE WROTE IT :o

[Urban Saboteur]

Ok Flatline, now that would make sense..
You mean like:
One thing is certain though: "Hasbro is to trying to kill the line" -.
With the new movie coming Hasbro is extra motivated to keep this line successful. The idea that Hasbro is trying to kill the line is absurd. But they also have no need to expand the roster.

As to quote what others have said? If your right you should get a gold star.. as reading it from a person's reading viewpoint without seeing this makes it very difficult to understand. :o :confused:

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Uncle Flint]

I just read through this thread for the first time and had to laugh. It makes me laugh that we (a bunch of grown men) can get so worked up about toys. And the animosity towards Hasbro really surprises me.

The fact of the matter is that the 25th Anniv. stuff is selling. Its selling better than than the last few waves of the new sculpt did, and way better than the DTC. The line was dying and they tried something new. It appears to be working right now.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah it's selling....and it has nothing to do with they're cool or they're better than ARAH sculpts....it's because Hasbro is SUPPORTING this line! Since 2001 have you seen an ARAH or NEW sculpt ad in a Magazine? No, they just complained sales were crap and then relegated them to an obscure website to die!



[QUOTE=Uncle Flint]
We have to remember that the collecting community isn't big enough to support a toy line. There just isn't enough of us. That means Hasbro has to create toys that will sell to kids. If Hasbro thought that the only people who buy the 25th Anniv. stuff would be collectors, they never would have bothered to produced the stuff in the first place.
[/QUOTE]

I think someone alread tackled this one. But Toys just don't sell like they used to! Kids want XBOX, Wii, Guitar Hero and Halo3! They don't want toys. My neighbor is a Joe fan and he got his boys all 3 five packs for Christmas. Two days ago only 3 figures we're broken or damaged. "They don't make 'em like they used to" he told me, and said he figured these weren't made for kids. And I gotta say, they AREN'T. They're too delicate...

[QUOTE=Uncle Flint]
What I don't understand was the need to switch to yet another construction format. Hasbro has proved they can produce new ARAH versions of old characters in the recent con sets. They sometimes act like there is no possible way to create new ARAH style molds.
[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY! I feel like they're saying to me "Thank you for your support all these years and buying 2,500 of our figures, but our need to make money and our habit of not listening to what you want has brought us to the conclusion that we need to remake the entire line, so you're years of loyalty and dedication now takes a back seat to our greed....F*%K you very much Mr. Nash....throw out that old non compatible collection and REBUY 25TH!!!!!"


[QUOTE=Uncle Flint]
One thing is certain though: Hasbro is to trying to kill the line. With the new movie coming Hasbro is extra motivated to keep this line successful. The idea that Hasbro is trying to kill the line is absurd. But they also have no need to expand the roster.
[/QUOTE]

Wanna know my biggest gripe? I'm tired of seeing the same figures again and again. I wanna see Mayday, the Red Shadows, Firewall, Wraith, Alexander and Lady Armada, and NOT Duke Version 234,578! And instead of just redoing the classic figures, why not Update them? Update them like DD did with MainFrame? (ok, maybe not the best update to use as an example, but....)Scarlett in a black commando type outift. I'd even buy Duke in black Halo gear.

Something cool and yet BELIEVEABLE and REALISTIC! Not stuff like the Sand Razor that has a two man open turret on top that is as big as the vehicle itself!
My last 15 Purchases have been PTE, or BBI because I'm so sick of the same unbelieveable crap! I started buying GI Joe 25 years ago because they had the closest thing to a Humvee and an Abrams! Now I get a purple hiss with snake scales on them! Huh?

The thing that made GI Joe sell in the 80's was everyone else was selling WWII figures, guns and vehicles. Kids wanted to play with what the Army had now (well, THEN!)! We were tired of our Grandfathers coming up and saying "I drove one a them tanks in Belgium" We wanted something new, sleek and modern. Something realistic. And Hasbro gave us that with the original 13....but as time wore on, they became rock starts with football Jerseys, long hair and Ninja Training until it got to the point they were hunting dinosaurs! And now they've gone from science fiction to porcelin collectors items! BLAH! Bring back the ARAH Molds and the "O"ring, get me an M988 Hemtt, or I'm giving BBI and PTE my money....Oh, and Marauder John....but I'll buy his stuff even if Hasbro listens to me and makes my dream come true!

[Sonneilon]

For me, I enjoyed the articulation. As much as I loved Star Wars, these had more playability.

[Uncle Flint]

Sorry, guys it was just a typo. Sorry if I confused everybody. However crappy the products are, Hasbro is NOT trying to kill the line. They need it to keep going and even growing. They wouldn't have bothered to create a whole new line if they only expected it to last one year. And with the movie coming they have to be trying to increase the fan base as much as possible.

There is no conspiracy here, or anything. the new sculpt stuff wasn't selling. the ARAH 6-packs weren't selling because they were poorly executed. so I guess they said "Lets' try somthing completely new."

I know they claim the 25th Anniv. stuff is for collectors, (and that may be true about the packaging) but they're just saying that to make us feel good. Hasbro has to sell this stuff to kids to make it profitable. They want to keep us happy, and keep us involved, but there just isn't enough of us to make a difference. We proved that with the DTC stuff.

[silentdusty]

Actually, the problem is, Hasbro left alot of us out of the picture with the DTC stuff, heck us non- US fans have no other choice but to go on E-Bay for alot of the items that we were looking for, yes TRU up here carried some of the VvV line and Spy Troops, but the really cool stuff was only available to US residents, and now with the 25th line, it's still only available to US residents, unless you go on E-Bay or a dealer like Small Joes (who is really good). Hasbro just plain ticks me off.

[nando]

well i love GIJOE but like all the south americans joes collectors , i have to buy what i can
i used to have ARAH as a kid and i love them O ring rules , i have a huge collection of gijoe vs cobra , ARAH ,and VvV but only a few DTC because i ONLY find them on internet , WELL im still waiting for some PRODUCTS TO ARRIVE TO MY COUNTRY , like back in 94 when ARAH was over , im not into 25th FIGURES , but maybe i will buy some vehicules .....

[greboguru]

I've been griping about the 25A figures over at GoodToGo, but this thread here seems to be more fertile ground for the subject...

See, I've been outta the loop for a while, so I only recently got my hands on the 25th Anniversary figures. And may I say "argh"? I have several gripes:

1. Ratcheting joints
On larger figures, ratcheting joints are very useful (if not vital) to stability and maintaining poses. But on 1/18-scale figures, I really see no need for them. At such a small scale, the ratcheting joints mostly restrict pose options. Grr. Plus, they present real obstacles when it comes to painting. In my opinion, this is the biggest problem with the 25th figures. Sheesh!

2. Hip articulation
I know this is being revised in the later figures, but... I mean... Man, I have no idea why Hasbro tried this in the first place. To go to all the trouble of making the new figs super-articulated, and then obstruct the hips so the figs can't fit in vehicles? That's strange. It almost seems like every new GI Joe figure line is required by law to have a poseability issue that is overcome later on in the line. Swivel-arm grip, no O-ring T-crotch figures, and now funky hips. WTF?

3. Soft plastic
I think that the use of softer plastic is a great thing for *certain parts* of action figures -- especially the hands and the smaller, more more fragile parts -- but is it really necessary to make the figures entirely out of soft plastic? Several of my figures are bowlegged or otherwise warped. Darnitall.

4. Torso joint placement
I gotta admit, the inclusion of a universal joint at the junction of the rib cage and abdomen is useful... But it's not as useful, IMO, as a joint at the waist/belt line. The waist is just a more natural place for a joint, isn't it? And on the 25th figures, the joint is at a very odd place; it makes the torso seem, well, oddly shaped. Instead of having the joint follow the bottom of the rib cage, it seems to follow the bottom of the pecs. A someone said, the effect is a look of man-boobs. Ugh.

5. Backpack holes & pegs
And then there's the backpack holes thing. Some have them, some don't, and none of the back holes are compatible with oldskool backpacks. Curses!

6. Scale
I was annoyed as heck when the new Microman figures got a bit larger, but the absolute awesomeness of the figures eventually won me over. There were almost no other flaws in the new line, and whatever flaws there are, they are lesser than the flaws in previous lines. In the case of the 25A Joes, the new scale just seems obnoxious. It makes compatibility with older vehicles even more of a problem, too. Gawd!

7. Elbow range
On a lot of the figures, the elbows have a really limited range of motion. Why did Hasbro think this was a good idea? Why?!?

GOOD THINGS
Alright, I've complained a lot. But still, the new figs do have a lot going for them. They have fabulous detail in the sculpting. Mmm-mmm good! Double-jointed knees, wrist joints, ankle joints... these are all wonderful. Also, I'm personally fine with there being no O-Ring, as that was always the first piece of a figure to fail (except sometimes for a thumb). The new figs still have a T-bar inside the pelvis, but the loss of the O-Ring really doesn't bother me. Well, except for the fact that it makes the figures harder to customize and less compatible with the previous toy lines. I gotta say, though, some of the accessories have been really keen.

I guess I'm kinda spoiled by Microman figures. But all in all, the 2nd-generation Joe figures (like Spytroops and such) are probably my favorite *kind* of Joe figures ever.

Grebo!

[greboguru]

I share everyone's pain here about the new figures (obviously -- see my previous post) but I think it's also important to understand Hasbro's POV...

1 - Fans vs Kids
Adult fans & collectors tend to think of themselves as the true driving force behind the popularity of their chosen toy line. But this is not the case. The number of monied adult fans is FAR exceeded by the number of monied parents with eager kids. These things we love are TOYS, after all, and the main market for toys is children. Ultimately, Hasbro is making toys for kids; they try to take adult fans' wishes into account as well, so as to make the most money possible, but at the end of the day the kid-aimed factors outweigh the fan-aimed factors. Basically, they're trying to have their cake and eat it too; the result is a product which doesn't really satisfy anyone fully.

2 - Focus Groups, etc
Hasbro (like any other corporation) spends tons of time and money trying to determine what their customers want, and then by committe they decide how best to make such things while at the same time spending as little money as possible. Apparently, the current trend for a lot of toy buyers -- kids included -- is display. Focus groups, market research, and the like indicate that nowadays, even kids are getting more interested in collecting and displaying rather than backyard-playing. Therefore, the look of an action figure is starting to become more important than the playability. I think this is the reason for the wierd crotches and hands and such. However, if you ask me, the figures don't really look all that nice. :-/

3 - Long-Term Plans
Much like the Transformers Classics line, I get the impression that the 25A line is a "filler" -- a placeholder until the movie-related toys come out. Once the movie hits theaters, Hasbro will probably not make any more 25A figures and instead will launch a blitz of movie-related toys with varying sizes and prices and styles. Look at the recent TF movie and its related merchandise if you want a forecast.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I am still not happy with the 25A line (except for a few figs, like Firefly, BeachHead and Zartan) either... But I know that Hasbro really just pays lip service to adult fans, and is much more concerned with kids. Me, I remain happiest with the 2nd-gen Spytroops and VvV toys.

Grebo!

[Outrider]

Well said Grebo! You pretty well touched on all the points that make us "25th haters" angry, and you did so articulately and in depth. One point you didn't mention, but which really annoys me, is the "cartoonish" leanings of the styling, the "Sigma Sixing" of the line.......definitely not a good move. And you also covered the few good points of the line, the excellent sculpting detail and mostly great accessories.

[Sonneilon]

That rachet effect is a bi-product of the injected-molded shoulders and eblows. The figures that had them in the older line suffered from them too. Major Barrage, for example.

[Stormer]

The "for the kids" argument is used a lot but Hasbro has said during their online Q&A sessions that the 25th line is aimed more at collectors. Someone asked about stuff like Galactic Heroes/Superhero Squad-style figures and their response was along the lines of, "If the success of the brand leads us to shift the focus away from a collector-targeted line we may consider such things when playability and the desires of children would be more important."

I do find it hard to believe that the majority of collectors wanted them to do a line that was largely incompatible with anyone's existing collection. Sure, people are OK with them now they're out with quite a lot of "Well, it's GI Joe and I'll buy it if that's all they're going to offer," but I bet next to nobody would have chosen for things to be like this in advance!

[Stormer]

Oh, and it's good to see you back, greboguru! I might restart that Dream Team dio-story idea of mine if one of the more vocal supporters is around again...!

[greboguru]

Thanks, Stormer. Yeah, man, do the Dream Team dio! I've wanting that to be fully realized for a while now.

Grebo

[QUOTE=Stormer]Oh, and it's good to see you back, greboguru! I might restart that Dream Team dio-story idea of mine if one of the more vocal supporters is around again...![/QUOTE]

[Uncle Flint]

I know Hasbro has said that the 25th Anniv. stuff is aimed at collectors, but it just isn't the truth. The reproduction packaging is aimed at collectors, but that's about it. Hasbro can't make money selling figures to a few thousand adult collectors. Its just not economically viable. Hasbro probably has to sell something like 50,000 figures of a given mold to make any profit. There just isn't 50,000 adult collectors out there, and Hasbro isn't going to produce figures knowing they will take a monetary loss. Its a business.

They may tell us, that we're the target audience, but it just ain't true.

[BigJeff]

You guys are suxxoes! 25th Joes Rox!

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=BigJeff]You guys are suxxoes! 25th Joes Rox![/QUOTE]

Now now Jeffrey, that's no way to behave on your first day in school. Go home, learn some respect, and come back with something a little more intelligent than "you guys are suxxoes". Do that and you might just find people listening to your opinion rather than laughing at it. ;)

[vader9900]

[QUOTE=Outrider]Now now Jeffrey, that's no way to behave on your first day in school. Go home, learn some respect, and come back with something a little more intelligent than "you guys are suxxoes". Do that and you might just find people listening to your opinion rather than laughing at it. ;)[/QUOTE]
Thats funny Outrider! :D
Oh and maybe rate everyones picture as terrible on your way out! :mad:

[Stormer]

Maybe not 500,000 adult collectors out there, but what happens when the ones that are end up buying multiples of everything due to the perceived rarity caused by abysmal distribution...? Of course, that line of thinking ends up leading to conspiracy theory-like notions that Hasbro is trying to force the new toyline into prominence and popularity so that all the existing collectors will buy everything, even if it's a remake of a character & design they already have, whereas original costumes in original construction would be more likely to get passed up by collectors who already have them...

I'm curious to know how many collectors of the 25th line are basically in the process now of replacing their ARAH collection? Who's buying everything that's coming out now and will be disappointed if any characters don't get a 25th release even though you already have a figure of that same character wearing the same clothes...?

As well as longtime Joe-fan collectors, I also think Hasbro's "adult collector" targeting includes people who will buy them for the nostalgia factor. People who used to collect Joes as kids, watched the cartoon, etc, and will see these in Wal-Mart and say "Hey, I remember that guy." Hence their advertising the line in places like ToyFare and Wizard magazine -- people with the right kind of attitude to buy toys but who couldn't identify with stuff like VvV. I've seen a few people/places online talking about the 25th figures (both positive reviews AND negative reviews regarding stuff like shoddy construction and restricted range of motion) and they were obviously people who weren't following Joes before the anniversary and certainly didn't have classic vehicles or dio-making hobbies that the new figures are harder to reconcile with.

[Prince Adam]

[QUOTE=BigJeff]You guys are suxxoes! 25th Joes Rox![/QUOTE]

That's not really a valid argument...

I peruse this thread from time to time and there are SOME valid points. But I know where I stand on the issue and for the most a lot of others do as well. I don't think over-zealous shout-outs are gonna change any minds here though. Also they are somewhat counter-productive.

Personally I like both 25th and ARAH. Was never into the JvC, Spytroops, VvV, or DTC stuff though unless they were RAH molds. These are a big nostalgia thing for me, but I can see why some don't like them. I don't see them as a continuation of the original line, but I didn't see any of the in-between lines as continuations either. Between Star Wars, Transformers, and GI Joes I think Hasbro likes to start over A LOT.

Now that I've set my opinion up for an attack, I'll go. ;)

[Sonneilon]

Flying his X-Wing toward Prince Adam's toy collection.

"Sonneilon, why did you turn off your targeting computer???"

lol

[Uncle Flint]

I think the nostalgia factor is huge. Its what got me back into buying Joe's after a 14 year absence.

Nostalgia is what's made the 25th Anniv. line successful where the DTC stuff wasn't. Since there isn't really any marketing at all, its nostalgia that's gotten people besides 'collectors" to by the figures.

I can just picture some 30-35 year old guy shopping for a Christmas present for his kid and he sees the new Joes. He recognizes the packaging and the figure. It ignites a spark and he ends up buying one or two. Maybe he comes back for more, maybe he doesn't. If the guy doesn't give it to his kid as a gift he'll probably end up using to decorate his desk, or sharing it with his kids or something. Does he end up collecting the whole line? Probably not, but maybe. He's probably introduced GI Joe to a new generation is the process which is great.

I think this nostalgia effect was realized mostly through character selection and packaging, and its the reason for the success of the line thus far. But can this nostalgia sustain the line long-term, and without a cartoon or something to breathe life into the line there's not much to get kids excited about unfamiliar characters. I'm really hoping that the movie will bring about a ton of interest from kids and crank the nostalgia up a few more notches with adults.

What I don't get, is that if Hasbro is really mining the nostalgia angle with the 25th Anniv. line, why did they have to switch to an entirely new construction? Wouldn't we all rather have new ARAH style sculpts of the original characters. The pre-1985 molds really look dated. Just imagine new ARAH molds for Short-fuze, Flash, Grunt, Firefly, Duke, that actually looked like the art work of the original packaging. Then imagine simply re-issuing molds we haven't seen since 1985 or 1986 (Alpine, Barbeque, Crankcase, Airtight). Combine that stuff with reproduction packaging, and you've got nostalgia gold.

I know some of the molds have been lost or broken, but its got to be easier to re-make a mold than it is to develop an entirely new construction format and new molds from scratch.

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=Uncle Flint]What I don't get, is that if Hasbro is really mining the nostalgia angle with the 25th Anniv. line, why did they have to switch to an entirely new construction? Wouldn't we all rather have new ARAH style sculpts of the original characters.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh, my unobtainable dream.... ;)
Sounds like a darn good idea to me Uncle Flint, too bad Hasbro doesn't think like we do. Had they stuck with the ARAH construction for the 25th stuff, I would have bought them by the bucket load. As it stands, I refuse to spend money on the "new" style of figures. It's a completely different line as far as I'm concerned, and it holds no interest for me whatsoever.

[yorktownjoe]

My 6 year old started "wrestling" two figures together. An O-ring ARAH figure (or at least a comic pack reissue) vs a 25th (comic pack Hawk, I think, vs 25th Cobra Commander.)

It was great to hear him humming his own little music and saying things like [COLOR=Red]"25th vs old-style, who will win?"[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Red]"Uhh, bam, slam, ding, ding, ding! Old style wins the day!"[/COLOR]

I'm not a 25th basher, I like them all right, but the idea of what you would have to do to acquire a mail-away Doc. Wow!

6 comic packs at $10 per, plus $4.95 shipping per fig. $64.95 for a single fig. Wow. I guess if the comic pack figures were great figures, that would be cool. Maybe future waves will look better.

Glad I still have a 1983 Carl Greer in decent shape...

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=yorktownjoe]I'm not a 25th basher, I like them all right, but the idea of what you would have to do to acquire a mail-away Doc. Wow!

6 comic packs at $10 per, plus $4.95 shipping per fig. $64.95 for a single fig. Wow. I guess if the comic pack figures were great figures, that would be cool. Maybe future waves will look better.

Glad I still have a 1983 Carl Greer in decent shape...[/QUOTE]

Not that I want one, but I'll bet the offer is not available outside the US either, as usual. That would mean another third-party eBay rip off price for us "foreigners" who might want one. :mad:

[greboguru]

The problem with Hasbro making new figures that use the ARAH style, or even the ARAH molds, is that... well... the ARAH figures look dumpy. They do! I dig them, I own many, I keep buying them, but really guys -- come on. Look at the ARAH figs and compare them to VvV figs, to Microman figs, or even to Star Wars figs. The ARAH figs looks dumpy! Their shoulders aren't broad, their heads are big, their arms are lumpy... their look simply is not up to the standards of modern toy aesthetics. They just don't look "cool".

I repeat: I like ARAH figures. They're not my fav (that would be 2nd Gen figs like VvV), but I do like them. However, part of their charm for me IS their frumpiness. I don't think Hasbro would feel comfortable with making more frumpy action heroes.

Grebobnoxious

OK, now I'm really gonna catch hell... (winces)

[vader9900]

PLEASE! :mad:

[Prince Adam]

To me the two are completely incomparable. Here's a prime example:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/The_Batman/fetts.jpg

I love both figures a lot. In fact vintage Fett is my favorite figure from that line, but he's by no means comparable to a counterpart that came some 28 years after, nor visa versa. Two separte eras, two separate lines. You can't blame the oiginals for there sculpting "imperfections", in the 80s they were the sh!t.

It's a pretty even split with this as far as love vs. hate. In the end it'l be "agree to disagree" which what I've settled upon.

[Sonneilon]

I've stated many times, the ARAH is part of my childhood. THe 2002+ stuff (the bastard era, eh?) was my way back in. A lot of the figures were bulked up (which they needed to be, imo), had better sculpting, outfits, etc. There WERE a lot of hit and misses. But I found the ARAH stuff looked like lil sausage links (ie; no shape) when compared to the Theme years.

The 25A are great but they serve a different purpose for me. I still have decided if I really want to do a dio with them. I've been buying up a LOT of stuff on ebay as of late. What that means is that, I see how ARAH collectors didn't like the 2002+ stuff. They wanted what they knew best. To an extent, I'm the same way. Yeah, the Cobra Trooper (25A) is nice and all, but if I can't get them in bulk AND at a lower price point, I'd rather go with the DTC Blueshirts! Which kinda means, my dios will most likely cater to the Theme Era over 25A. But the 25A are nice.

[G.I.*Jock]

I was out in Glasgow the other day getting up to date with the Joe comics. It's a bit far to go for the comics I suppose, but on the other hand I got everything I was looking for.

Quite by chance I found another comic shop, someway away from the usual areas of shopping in Glesga. Anyway I went in and to my horror I saw two Commando Sigma 6 figures. Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow. Thats the first time I have saw them here in Scotland and I hope it's the last! It did however make me ask the guy in the store if he had any other Joe items...

He did have, two weeks before my visit unfortunately! They had the 25th Anniv stuff and I had missed it by 14 days or so! Bugger! I was genuinely disapointed! I do hate the figures with a passion. But I really would have bought some. Just to see if they are really as bad as they look. Also from a collectors point of view I'd like to have the 25th anniv stuff boxed, as it does mean something to me. Just a shame Hasbro made an arse of it!

I find myself almost surprised though, that I was actually disapointed when the guy said he was sold out. I never expected to find any Joe's at all.

Maybe I'm a closet lover of the 25th stuff? :eek: I hope not! :o

Dave :D

[Urban Saboteur]

I'm still disappointed we didn't get the final product we were promised waaay back in January. :(
The pictures we were shown initially and the product promised isn't what consumers have ended up with. I still remain overly cynical towards the 25th line.
Infact 15 years ago i would of sawn my arm off, poked myself in the eyes and added vinegar to several contusions to my scrotum to get some gijoe at retail even at release.. it's come down to me looking at the new figures with such contempt.. here is why:

Articulation improved significantly since the 80s. - Ok that's good they've identified that under today's current action figure standards the 80s figures just aren't going to cut it. So they tweak and redesign the whole figure but keep the character based the same.
This would work had the articulation not encountered any problems. Now by fair play lets say if it was a new company we give them a decent cut.. I mean.. it's not like hasbro are new to this market? They've been designing figures and releasing them at retail for over 20 years. So it's not like they couldn't notice the elbow problem, the beehatch tits (manflab) or the lack of seating.

Secondly.. over all the lines they've released they seem to be riding on the nostalgia thing. I'm still worried that those looking at these figures and buying into the line are doing so without looking at the overall product.

I want hasbro to get this right, I want a gi joe figure I can be proud of and want a product that the majority of fans will be happy with.

Going onto the O-ring .. or lack of o-ring in the new figures, this worries lots of old style figure collectors, or purists as they probably see themselves. Figures in general can be just as moveable without o-ring. The design on some WCW figure I saw made by marvel a while back caught my attention. It didnt use O-ring but it was of similar torso constructions and design to the gi joe of 25th Anniversary style.
Had the actual design and torso been good and actually benefited the figure, had the figure not had such hideously underdeveloped muscles.. in some cases Gung-Ho. Hasbro will get this right, they'll make changes to the figures as they already have started to realise.. but in all real honesty..
WHY .. why must they release at retail figures from the beginning that have such huge design flaws?

I can't say that the figures don't look refreshing or different, and in all fairness sometimes you have to take a gamble and hasbro have done that, they've gambled big time by changing the figure the way they have they've signalled their intentions at moving the toyline forward.

Those wanting RAH sculpt style figures released at retail better pray for a VR machine or time travelling machine because as much as the truth hurts.. this isn't going to happen.. ;)

I do think deep down under the horrible mess theres a figure line worth saving on the 25th line. Maybe when the movie comes out they'll redesign some areas and improve them.

I have issues with certain figures that have been released. Lots of people love the 25th Firefly, I can't stand him. His arms are way too skinny for a start.
I could sit here and pick a flaw with each 25th figure if I wanted, but most who have contributed to the thread know exactly the frustrations that are set amongst the fans of the older figures and the line so it's not needed.

Hasbro are actually behind in toy manufacturing and ideas, over the last few weeks i've seen figures that are way better articulated and poseable than the 25th stuff, they work and are in scale, they aren't owned by Hasbro but they are made overseas.

What really disappoints me is that they seem to be waiting on the film now, to further expand the line and releases, rather than introduce the comic or the cartoon to back it up.. the reality is that nostalgia will only last so long.. then when the buyers have ran out of steam or got frustrated with hasbro's lazyness and repaints.. they'll drop the line like they did back in 94/95.

[ToneGunsRevisited]

I'll just buy the figures from characters that I like and just if they come out in a good way for me. But what I was really expecting for the 25th was something like the old comic packs.

Hasbro could at least keep up with the comic packs like on VvsV and DTC for the old sculpt lovers like me and others here.

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=greboguru]The problem with Hasbro making new figures that use the ARAH style, or even the ARAH molds, is that... well... the ARAH figures look dumpy. They do! I dig them, I own many, I keep buying them, but really guys -- come on. Look at the ARAH figs and compare them to VvV figs, to Microman figs, or even to Star Wars figs. The ARAH figs looks dumpy! Their shoulders aren't broad, their heads are big, their arms are lumpy... their look simply is not up to the standards of modern toy aesthetics. They just don't look "cool".

I repeat: I like ARAH figures. They're not my fav (that would be 2nd Gen figs like VvV), but I do like them. However, part of their charm for me IS their frumpiness. I don't think Hasbro would feel comfortable with making more frumpy action heroes.

Grebobnoxious

OK, now I'm really gonna catch hell... (winces)[/QUOTE]

You won't "catch hell" from me for voicing a valid opinion! I agree to an extent, and ARAH figures were never perfect (what toy is?), but for me they are a heck of a lot better than the 25th stuff.

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=G.I.*Jock]But I really would have bought some. Just to see if they are really as bad as they look.[/QUOTE]

Oh they are Dave, they are! :rolleyes:

[Sonneilon]

Craig, don't you only have the 1st 2 5-packs? Those are pretty bad examples when compared to the stuff that's been coming out recently. I can't even tell toy collectors (be it joe fans or just toy fans) to look for those 5-packs. Even the 1st wave is so-so. But once you get to the Beach Head and the Zartan waves, they are pretty darn good. By now, you've probably seen the Wild Bill figure coming out. That's a great looking figure right there.

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]Craig, don't you only have the 1st 2 5-packs? Those are pretty bad examples when compared to the stuff that's been coming out recently. I can't even tell toy collectors (be it joe fans or just toy fans) to look for those 5-packs. Even the 1st wave is so-so. But once you get to the Beach Head and the Zartan waves, they are pretty darn good. By now, you've probably seen the Wild Bill figure coming out. That's a great looking figure right there.[/QUOTE]

I know they have made some improvements to the figures, G, but I'm just not a fan of the new construction, "cartoonish" styling or larger size. I already have all of the characters anyway, and I refuse to start my collection all over again just because Hasbro decided on a new scale. I have seen the pics of the new stuff, and I'm not impressed; there's nothing there to change my mind.

[ender098]

[QUOTE=greboguru]The problem with Hasbro making new figures that use the ARAH style, or even the ARAH molds, is that... well... the ARAH figures look dumpy. They do! I dig them, I own many, I keep buying them, but really guys -- come on. Look at the ARAH figs and compare them to VvV figs, to Microman figs, or even to Star Wars figs. The ARAH figs looks dumpy! Their shoulders aren't broad, their heads are big, their arms are lumpy... their look simply is not up to the standards of modern toy aesthetics. They just don't look "cool".

I repeat: I like ARAH figures. They're not my fav (that would be 2nd Gen figs like VvV), but I do like them. However, part of their charm for me IS their frumpiness. I don't think Hasbro would feel comfortable with making more frumpy action heroes.

Grebobnoxious

OK, now I'm really gonna catch hell... (winces)[/QUOTE]


Nah, you're not gonna catch hell. You're right. The new line is superior in a number of respects, what irks me is they don't match even in SIZE with my old figures. I've collected since 1982, and it'a like Hasbro is saying, "Thanks for the Loyalty, now throw everything out and start again!"

I just got used to those old dumpy looking figures, now If I do a Dio, and I put figures from the two lines together, WTF? Destro just got drafted for the NBA? There are a few I couldn't live without, like Pimp Daddy and the New Mold Serpentor...and I wanna see how this 25th Bat will look! If he towers over figures, it's ok! He's NOT HUMAN...but having a 6"3' Tunnel rat is just WRONG! If I wanna keep the figures in scale, I have to buy a COMPLETELY new collection, and I'm not gonna do that after years of supporting GI Joe!

[lehsreh]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]Craig, don't you only have the 1st 2 5-packs? Those are pretty bad examples when compared to the stuff that's been coming out recently. I can't even tell toy collectors (be it joe fans or just toy fans) to look for those 5-packs. Even the 1st wave is so-so. But once you get to the Beach Head and the Zartan waves, they are pretty darn good. By now, you've probably seen the Wild Bill figure coming out. That's a great looking figure right there.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Red]
SO TRUE SO TRUE. I HAVE NOTICED A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT FROM THE FIRST 5 PACKS TO THE NEWER ONES COMING OUT NOW. AND OUTRIDER, I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DONT CARE SO MUCH FOR THEM, IF YOU HAVE THEM ALL WHY GET THEM. BUT FOR ME I NEVER HAD A HUGE COLLECTION AS A KID, DONT REALLY HAVE ONE NOW, I JUST WANT SOME OF THE ONES I NEVER HAD. THATS WHY IM WAITING FOR BLUDD.[/COLOR]

[Gatilho]

[QUOTE=Outrider]I know they have made some improvements to the figures, G, but I'm just not a fan of the new construction, "cartoonish" styling or larger size. I already have all of the characters anyway, and I refuse to start my collection all over again just because Hasbro decided on a new scale. I have seen the pics of the new stuff, and I'm not impressed; there's nothing there to change my mind.[/QUOTE]

I'd write something in this thread but you already wrote what I'd like to say!

In my opinion, the 25th line is something like Sgt Savage or Sigma 6, I'll not start another joe collection that can be dead as soon as the sales decreases or a new style arrives.

I'm not telling that Hasbro is doing something wrong or not but it doesn't work for me.

[Rambo]

Was it to difficult to make new 3.75 ARAH style figures?

I don't think so.

[Sonneilon]

I still think that the upgrade in size is to differentiate between GI Joe from two other toylines out there; Star Wars and BBI. And there are apparently Marvel and Wrestling figure that will also go 1/18. So to make GI Joe different, up the size. And the sculptors are notorious for saying that the bigger the figure, the more detailing they can do.

I personally don't mind the larger scale. I prefer it only in that I don't mix the different eras. But uh, yeah, where were we???

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]I still think that the upgrade in size is to differentiate between GI Joe from two other toylines out there; Star Wars and BBI. And there are apparently Marvel and Wrestling figure that will also go 1/18. So to make GI Joe different, up the size. And the sculptors are notorious for saying that the bigger the figure, the more detailing they can do.

I personally don't mind the larger scale. I prefer it only in that I don't mix the different eras. But uh, yeah, where were we???[/QUOTE]


But that's what sucks...if you mess with the size, you take away any chance to use other figures as extras....Is GI Joe gonna make cops, Construction guys or Paramedics? If not, they better keep them the same size as "The Corps". I mean if all action figures were the same size, you could have tons of fun making new customs....but this "someone else is making 3 3/4", so we'll go 4.1" is nuts! Hell, just go back to 12"! That's what GI Joe Started as!

As for detailing, BBI has done wonders with detail on their 3 3/4" figures...better than any of the Arah characters....admit it, Hasbro just needs a new cash cow!

And have you seen Wave 7? Snake eyes V4???? Already! And Duke from the Cartoon? We bringing back Cobra La? How cheesey! BTW, how many dukes is that so far? I count 3 Cobra commanders, 4 Snake eyes, and 3 dukes.....Anyone seen Grunt? just curious! Guess I have to wait until DTC wave 4 from MC comes out...or the next Con to get figures.... :(

[Sonneilon]

The Hasbro guys aren't thinking about how GI Joe fits into other toylines. They could care less. Check this thread out to give you some hints at things...

http://joebattlelines.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3541&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

BTW, the Snake Eyes in question isn't a straigt up repaint. It's another version that comes with butterfly knives. Hasbro's SEv4 is different than yojoe's definition of SEv4, I believe.




I never said Hasbro wasn't trying to make GI Joe a cash cow. I can totally understand the change of scale. But I've come to the conclusion that GI JOe is NOT hard military. It may have started closer to that but now... GI Joe is a monster. It's not like you'd ever see BBI do a VvV sort of thang! :p

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]But I've come to the conclusion that GI JOe is NOT hard military. It may have started closer to that but now... GI Joe is a monster. It's not like you'd ever see BBI do a VvV sort of thang! :p[/QUOTE]

Maybe (probably) I'm old fashioned, but I like my Joes "hard military", the more realistic, the better. No mystical ninjas, no venom serum, no mechs, no shape shifters etc, etc. Stuff like 21st Century Toys 1/18 military line looks awesome, it's just a pity they are so fragile. If some toy company ever comes up with a sturdily-built, realistic modern military line, they'll get my cash. That's one of the reasons I dislike the 25th stuff, the sculpts are just too cartoonish. :rolleyes:

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]The Hasbro guys aren't thinking about how GI Joe fits into other toylines. They could care less. Check this thread out to give you some hints at things...

http://joebattlelines.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3541&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

BTW, the Snake Eyes in question isn't a straigt up repaint. It's another version that comes with butterfly knives. Hasbro's SEv4 is different than yojoe's definition of SEv4, I believe.

I never said Hasbro wasn't trying to make GI Joe a cash cow. I can totally understand the change of scale. But I've come to the conclusion that GI JOe is NOT hard military. It may have started closer to that but now... GI Joe is a monster. It's not like you'd ever see BBI do a VvV sort of thang! :p[/QUOTE]


Oi! Looks like I need to start a BBIDIos website......
Man, it sucks that big business makes these decisions....what right do boardroom stiff have to decide what characters get offered? Sounds to me like WalMart and Target want to run GI Joe into the $hitter so The Corps and Forces Of Valor don't have any competition......

What was funny was when Star Wars came out in 1977, if you missed the first wave of figures, you missed Darth Vader....and a lot of people were upset about that....now,it's just the opposite...WHAT??? Neon Pink, McQuarrie Alternate Universe Darth Vader? God, don't we have enough! I mean every so often, I remember Kenner putting out Wave 1 Charatcers again, but they were pretty good about not flooding the Market with 5,000 versions of the same Character until "The Power of The Force " collections came out.....

It's getting silly.....GI Joe is gonna die soon unless Hasbro decides to get some Gajones and TELL companies what they will produce. In the old days, didn't manufacturers go to the company with..."this is what we got...you want some to stock your shelves?" Now it's like...."Hey, Walmart....what can we make for your board members that they will approve for sale"? WTF? When did retailers get to tell manufacturers what to produce?

Gee....hmmmm, I'm gonna take Duke, Snake eyes, Gung ho and Duke...and Snake eyes and Snow job to attack the Cobra Base and I'll have Duke and Duke and Stalker (how did he get in there???) around back to link up with Scarlett and Snake eyes and Snake eyes and Duke....and they will take out Cobra Commander and Destro and Destro and Storm Shadow and Storm Shadow and the ONE CG I was able to find that had the Doc sticker taken off at Target....While Zartan and Buzzer and Storm Shadow and Cobra Commander and Cobra Commander and Cobra Commander and Destro and destro hold the front.....Thank God I got one Air Trooper single pack for Cobra Air Support. I'll have him cover Storm Shadow, Cobra Commander and OH HELL, WHAT's THE USE?!?!?!

I might as well buy Star Wars! :P

[Sonneilon]

dawg, it's been this way for YEARS. C'mon, you've HAD to read the history reports on the JBL. Hasbro did things their way for awhile. But stores realized what sells are the characters people can recognize. I understand that's not fair to the fans, but Hasbro wants casual collectors to suck in. So that's how CORE is created. Frank, you gotta know about the BIG 3. They call the shots. Whether we like or not, it don't matter. Like Hasbro, these corporations are out to make money.

That is why we see Duke, SE and CC so much. It's my belief that there are different tiers of characters. Like Destro, Stormy and Baroness (who knows who else) are tier2. I'm sure heavyDuty/Roadblock, Firefly, etc are Tier3.

And if you EVER notice the SW line, the same old characters show up. Just as Marvel has Core, Batman has core, He-Man has core, etc. But uh yeah... The fact is, who KNOWS when we might get new characters or when GI Joe will move forward. Let's face it, when the movie toys come out, don't expect anything new. I expect the usual CORE with MAYBE new outfits.

[Da Talent]

I need to vent and this is the thread for it. Man, all these non stop 25th pics are roitting my soul. I loved this site before the 25ths got so popular. Yes I have some, but only bc I enjoy the hunt for new joes, even if they suck, and even then I just paint and disfigure them. And yes I do use some in a few shots, but when I do, they fit nice with the traditionals. There are just soo many shots of just 25th figures in the shot. I love this site bc I get to see pics of old troops I don't have or haven't thought of in awhile. A picture could be original soul-ly on the basis of what figures you chose to put in your shot. But it hurts my heart and my dedication to the site when I see the same 10 25th figs over and over, I like seeing the customs, even thats fun, I love to paint and hack. But seeing the same person post the same figures over and over drives me batty. I miss so much seeing awesome figures I didn't have. I didn't know about the laser vipers till this site, now I have a bunch, I didn't know about the blue undertows untill this site, now I have a bunch. You can say I just don't know my joes then, but I say I didn't take notice of that fig until I saw them in a great pic and then wanted to hunt them down. I get no excitment over seeing a 25th s.e. or a 25th firefly over and over. Infact I wish so much I could change my name just bc I don't like seeing him so much, we all saw firefly enough with the older figs, but now I'm not even sure I like him anymore. (Admins: If you listening is it possible to change) :D . I miss the good old days and Ive only been a member 8 months.


disclaimer:
This was not meant as a personal attack, a singling out, or any other kind of attack on any of my friends here only as an attack on hasbro for giving me sh*tty toys and hurting my passion which is this site. I was not trying to offend any collectors or dio makers. I have a bunch of 25ths, I still buy them. just not sure why I do, and I don't have fun with them. I love everyone here and your work regardless of compositon, its cool we even have a place to do this. That said, just a personal opinion, don't hold that against me. :D Now back to the booze!

cory

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=fireflyed]Man, all these non stop 25th pics are rotting my soul. I loved this site before the 25ths got so popular.[/QUOTE]

Heh, I know what you mean. I wish they had a separate section so I didn't have to see 'em at all! :rolleyes: The more I see of them the more I dislike them. To me, they are a separate toy line, nothing to do with the Joes we have known and loved for so long. :(

[Self-Modifier]

True, they're a separate toy line, but so is Sigma Six and no one (that I saw) ever complained when pics of those guys got posted pretty regularly. People show pics of 12" Joes too, and no one ever says they need a separate section. I don't even think anyone would complain if someone posted Sgt. Savage or G.I. Joe Extreme shots here either, because they all fall under the banner of G.I. Joe, just like the 25th.

A lot of people find the 25th figures fun to photograph because they're so poseable, thus lending themselves to certain things that normal ARAH Joes can't do. I don't see why this is such a big deal, though-- If you see a thumbnail with 25th figures in it, just don't click it!

Anyway, sorry to inject a pro-25th statement into this thread. By all means, please carry on bashing! ;)

[Outrider]

[QUOTE=Self-Modifier]True, they're a separate toy line, but so is Sigma Six and no one (that I saw) ever complained when pics of those guys got posted pretty regularly. People show pics of 12" Joes too, and no one ever says they need a separate section. I don't even think anyone would complain if someone posted Sgt. Savage or G.I. Joe Extreme shots here either, because they all fall under the banner of G.I. Joe, just like the 25th.

A lot of people find the 25th figures fun to photograph because they're so poseable, thus lending themselves to certain things that normal ARAH Joes can't do. I don't see why this is such a big deal, though-- If you see a thumbnail with 25th figures in it, just don't click it!

Anyway, sorry to inject a pro-25th statement into this thread. By all means, please carry on bashing! ;)[/QUOTE]

It was only a tounge-in-cheek comment, Self Mod, I don't really expect or desire a separate section for 25th pics. ;) But your advice on not looking is sound, I generally only comment on a 25th pic if it is something special.

[Da Talent]

I was just venting, and believe it or not it made me feel better. like Self-mod said , we have had plenty of shots of sigma, 12inch etc, but all together it was a great diversity. All the pics certainly mixed it up a bit and made for great pics, my main point was simply that (at least to me) it gets old seeing the same 25th figures posed over and over, having 25 years of O-ring figs makes for alot of diverse figure selections as opposed to the common 25th you pick up at target, but lately all photos focus on the same 25th individuals. You are right Self-m, there are extremely posseble and that makes for cool looking shots(if you can get over the man-boobs some have) but its all the 25ths points of articulation that really show how cool it is when a classic 3&3/4 is posed to perfection. again I was not trying to alienate any 25th owners and lovers, I was just thinking back..reflecting...and missing. After all it is what this thread is for.

[sgcaper]

I have to admit the 25th stuff has grown on me and I have been customizing them like crazy BUT... I too miss the original guys. All of mine are in storage while my 25th stuff is here in the apt. hence my pics. If I had the room I'd focus on my older stuff. I am currently reliving my childhood by searching for the 25th stuff, it's cheaper than buying original figs on ebay and I like the hunt. Like anything though the fad that is the 25th stuff will pass and members will be returning back to the original. So Cory rest assured you'll see more original style pics.

[Da Talent]

I must admit I dig the hunt, and get plenty excited about getting a new comic pack at midnight at wal-mart, nothing against the figs, just miss seeing more than the common 25th fig everyday. Sgcaper, I hope your right, so I'll stick around... lol yea right where am I gonna go?! I love this joint :D

[Sonneilon]

You gotta figure it's the NEW thing on the block right now. You never know... You might see some old stuff surface from me sooner or later. ;) (errrrr, old in as 2002-2005)