To Joe Dios

[rds13601]

Some of your guy's comments have not sat well with me. I try to notify you when new 25th product is available like Wave 7 and Senior Command Packs and it's met with rude comments. I also didn't like what you so called "gentlemen" did to General Scarlett. I might also add I became enraged when she was verbally abused and called the b word. I gave her my collection for contests for best photo and best dio. When i heard what happened; I told her to keep the entire collection for herself. You guys are the one's missing out. She wasn't perfect; no one is. To resort to calling a female names boils my blood!!!!!!!!! If you got a problem with what I say, i'm not hard to find. You can look at my profile and send me message. In fact, I'd be more than happy to meet with you to discuss the matter face to face. This site is for fun and recreation. At least so i thought!! You can ban me for life for all i care!! Just know this, you treated a woman disrespectfully and with malice. To those who did it. I hope when you look in the mirror you like what you see. There are other sites out there with less name calling and more fun. I hope joe Dios returns to that Russ Spencer

[ender098]

To rds13601,

I think the ones here who collect the 25th appreciate your help locating the items you mention, for some of us however, (Myself and OutRider come to mind) the 25th is a betrayal. I stayed faithful and many times spent my hard earned cash on ARAH and even sold my Star Wars Collection to buy Joes. Now, Hasbro is saying to me "That's all done, what we did in the last 25 years wasn't good enough, throw it all away and buy these NEW "same old" figures, with crappy articulation and stiff joints". I figure as much money as I have put into this hobby, I earned the right to throw in a few snide comments about the 25th. Anything I say about the 25th is not personal towards you or any of you who still buy 25th figures, but I personally hate them and will NOT support this line. I'm sorry if you took that personal, it's not against you, but against a company I stayed faithful to for 25 years that threw away a product I was happy with for an inferior one.

As for General Scarlett, I don't remember anyone here calling her a "Biotch" or any other nasty word. What I do remember is everytime someone challenged or butted heads with her, she would start out with "I know you all think I'm Queen Biotch around here..." or something similar. But that didn't bother ME personally, it was irritating, but I knew it was part of her unique personality. What I got upset about was because she went and made MAJOR changes without asking the rest of the forum members what they thought or took a consensus as to whether it SHOULD have been done at all. Then, when nobody liked it, SHE started acting like it was because she was a Woman, and started saying everyone her THOUGHT she was a biotch, etc. It's one thing to do something only to find out it wasn't a good idea in the eyes of most here, but it's VERY INSULTING to TELL ME what I THINK of a PERSON. In my opinion, she wasn't level headed enough to hold a moderators position and I said just that. If you find fault with that, Sorry, but that's how I feel. She felt it was ok to tell everyone how she felt, but if anyone came back at her with how THEY felt, out came the "I AM MODERATOR" threats.

How would you feel if I posted a picture joking about something that you took serious, then when you got mad at me, I'd tell you "Well, you think I'm just an ignorant Jarhead". I don't have the right to tell YOU what YOU think of me. And neither did she. And if you did tell me how you felt, I'd threaten to ban you? I'll admit a lot of members here got fed up with her attitude early on, but I remained neutral, but when you have like 90% of the Veterans saying "Ok, that crossed the line..." you have to take a stand.

As for disrespect and Malice, who treated her like that? She got in a heated debate over religion, but that thread got WAY off topic and out of control and she wasn't the only one in that thread that needed a "TIME OUT". I think a lot of the disrespect and malice she got treated with was fabricated in her own head. Maybe one or two members here got loud with her here, but all in all, I think we gave her a wide berth of leinency before Mr. Fel was contacted about her conduct.

Other than the thread that got off course on religion, when did anyone here call here a name in the forum? Maybe I'm blind, but I only ask you to show me one instance....and for each one I can show you three where she was NOT called any name, but wrote "You all think I'm the queen B**CH here..." and similar remarks. If someone IM'ed her and called her a biotch, she banned them. I know she banned a hell of a lot of other folks for a lot less.

Think this over. Don't be reactive. If you can show me where we were being disrespectful (other than that one thread) I'll more than happily recant what I said.

Respectfully,
Frank

[Sonneilon]

I suppose I should put my 2 cents in here. Time for a brief HIStory from my perspective.

In 2005, I got married.

By the end of 2006, Emi and I were having major problems. THings weren't getting properly resolved and we didn't really try to work things out. Go to counseling? Emi didn't have the energy to do that when things were that bad.

March 2007, I started working at Daiso. My 1st job since Trader Joes which I left in 2004? I was a stay home daddy for that long time. WHEN I entered Daiso, Emi got worried that I'd take interest in "all the young mall girls there". And sure, I told Frank and Shane some things, but things were falling apart due to OTHER reasons. A lot of it had to do with me not bucking up and taking a stand.

What I learned is that, I'd rather find a woman I can GROW with rather than one where I enter into "her" already set life.

When I moved out (I was homeless for a week), I didn't have a computer. I'd run to the library or Daiso to take care of VERY LITTLE JD business. I asked Fel if GS could become a moderator to take care of things. ie; Target Range, Weekend Warriors, getting rid of spam and dealing with mooks.

And almost at the beginning, I started hearing about problems with GS. I didn't know what was going on. I was getting PMs and IMs about things. Yet, I wasn't too worried about it.

It's been recently that people have been coming out of the woodwork. What you guys saw on the JD in terms of ranting was NOTHING compared to what was happening in the IMs to me and the PMs to me and Fel. People felt she wasn't level-headed (as Frank said) and quite arbitruary in a lot of matters. ie; too lenient (sp) in some cases, too hard in other. Yet, I still took a backseat, even when I came back.

MY ROLE in all this is that; I could listen. I can understand but I didn't feel it was my place to take away her powers or ban her or anything of the like. I told each and every person who had a problem with GS to take it up with Mr. Fel. He's the boss and he could make the best decision based on the info given to him. Some of the regulars have all but gone and disappeared (Phu & Jay come to mind).

JoeDios, to most of the guys (and you probably know this too since you been around awhile), was a self-policed site. We just needed someone with the power to ban a few trolls (KnowItAllJoe) and get rid of spam. I suppose JD had it's growing pains and people won't see eye-to-eye on things, but that's ok. As long as we can keep things polite (unlike the Metallica forums), everything should be ok.

As well, Mr. Fel wants this site to look a certain way. He doesn't believe we need a ton of forums because this is a specific crowd here. Sure, we can get OT in the regular forum, but there was no need for a movie forum, toy forum, comic forum, etc. He told me we could visit the JBL, YoJoe, JoeSightings, Hisstank, etc if we needed a bigger community atmosphere. Personally, I appreciate it when guys like you and Big L throw down the "What's new in the Joe line" cuz I'm not looking at closesly as I did.

RDS, thank you for your feelings on the matter of GS. Nothing wrong with getting 'em out.

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red]MMM, what frank said word for word... except the 25th thing.

i dont think we were over zealous with her, at least i know i wasnt. she hadnt been on the web but 2 years, which she admitted. she tried to do what she wanted on this site, maybe what she thought was right. but a lot of us had been on this site even before she started with the internet. graham was having some problems and needed some personal time. although he was going to be here, it wouldnt be as often as he normally was. she thought she could help out, and if im not mistaken, asked hammerfel if she could mod, not the other way around. she had no idea what this place was about and the position should have been given to someone else. but she was the one who asked for it and got it. i myself know for a fact that i never called her any name whatsoever, and i dont recall anyone else openly doing it, but i could have missed something.

i disagreed with her very often with her taking stuff down and blocking threads and deleting comments. if a picture was not to her liking for whatever reason it was taken down. i saw times it was done so within seconds without telling the poster why. then i would write and say something and she would say, well i thought it wasnt tasteful. here in a place where we kill unknown soldiers by the dozens. and then at the end she started acting like she had more power then graham. the guy would politely point something out, he having been here far longer then me, and me a year before her, and he running things for hammerfel, but she acted like all the power and responsibility were hers. she didnt act like she was a mod, she acted like she owned the place. her way or the highway.

i understand that you may have liked the way she did things and may have been a friend. but calling people out, saying "im not hard to find" on the net, and telling us that we are not getting your action figures, come on, that is childish.[/COLOR]

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red]after reading what graham said, i admit that i was wrong and sorry. she did not ask for the position. i am big enough to admit when im wrong and say im sorry when i am. graham also noted something that i noticed months ago. more then a few of the guys who were here when i joined up have now moved on. the phu guy who he mentioned was someone who stood out for some reason. i know he gave me some advice once about molding. im not saying for sure its due to her, but a lot of the vets are gone.[/COLOR]

[Urban Saboteur]

To Rds13601.
With all due respect you speak of these people who branded her a bitch. Those that treated her with disrespect and those that verbally abused her.

With all due respect if you see fit you should call out what you think you know, because clearly you know more than your letting on and clearly you've been talking to someone else to gauge this reaction.

What hammerfel done was make a crucial decision on moderation, for the good of the site, he even went out and publicly thanked pru for all her time and efforts, i agree also here with frank on the subject of that religious thread, it doesn't sit too well with most forums on discussion of religion and it got well out hand.

Aside from this, for alot of veterans here they were at times cautious about commenting on certain topics or points of discussion because of Pru's rather quickfire banning procedure. I think the best example was brought up by resident member fireflyed .. he began giving his opinions and thoughts on the changes pru made.. with the comments 'with the risk of being banned' .. it's like frank said, it seemed half the time you couldn't give honest criticism of any situation without thinking you were going to being banned for it. . . and all because it didn't sit well with her original decisions.

I can't speak for everyone here at joe dios, but i know alot of veterans felt that we really didnt need a moderator, and that basically we can all sort anything out amongst ourselves.
Rich

[Sonneilon]

Actually, Big L, it was a mix of her wanting to be a mod (she's a mod on JBL too) and me recommending her for it. I needed someone and she was more than willing to step up to the plate. She DID want it and I helped out. You weren't wrong, Big L.

[rds13601]

Who are you guys trying to convince, me or yourselves!! As far as childness; I think you guys have set the bar for that. I could care less what you guys think of me. All i know is she tried her best and it wasn't easy. In a position like that you're not going to please everyone. Hence the term moderator. Nobody is perfect. Instead of butting heads maybe you could of helped her!! As for religion, maybe she didn't know what to do. Maybe she didn't want to post the thread but then felt she didn't want to deny the guy his say. Obviously, you guys know it all. I find your arrogance quite amusing. After reading your wonderful comments, Pru was moved to tears. You guys should be happy with yourselves. Making someone who tried their best cry. Gee, that wasn't childish of you guys at all, was it?

[Sonneilon]

Dude, you aren't seeing it right. Or even level-headed. YOU KNOW that before she came into power, the only problem we EVER had were with trolls and spam. EVER since she came in, all i got were reports of problems. Not hard enough in some instances, too mellow on others. A person tells me to f off and it's NOT justified, they are banned. cuz that is a sign of disrespect. From what I gather, Pru would listen to both sides. CaptMax told me to F off. That meant to me he had not respect for authority. I banned him. Pru said he was BIPOLAR. Honestly, what's that mean to me? Understand him? It dont' work like that here. It's the internet. Real life really doesn't work here. You think a corporation would be ok with a worker telling the CEO to f off? Please.

Prudence did a lot of things that pissed people off.

Maybe it was justified. Maybe it wasn't.

People see this as a democratic site and she, apparently, did a lot of tyranical things. We don't need to convince ourselves. SHe made mistakes. BUT mods have to be level-headed. They have to objective, NOT subjective.

The greatest thread is the religion thread. IN which, Frank never asked people's opinions WHAT their affiliation is. But it got way off topic. And then we had pics of Prudence with clergy. That didn't go with the fact that Frank was questioning whether to let his kid go to a funky cultish group.

And for the record, GS has had problems over on the JBL too. So do NOT think that her behavior here is an isolated incident.

[ender098]

[QUOTE=rds13601]
Who are you guys trying to convince, me or yourselves!! As far as childness; I think you guys have set the bar for that. I could care less what you guys think of me.
[/QUOTE]

Well,if you had read the thread and my responses, you would know I'm not trying to convince anyone. Just stating the truth of what happened. I just spent about an hour loking through the forums and still have yet to find ONE instance of anyone here calling Prudence a name. If you know something I don't...tell me. I'm confused!

I think no less of you for trying to take up for a person you though was wronged. That takes guts. My point is, no one disrespected her until she disrespected them first. Again...it's easy to listen to HER side of the story that everyone disrespected HER, but I never saw it. Was it in IM's? Was it on the Forum? Where?

[QUOTE=rds13601]
All i know is she tried her best and it wasn't easy. In a position like that you're not going to please everyone. Hence the term moderator.
[/QUOTE]

Uhm, I think you have confused the term Moderator. From Websters online;

moderator

Main Entry: mod·er·a·tor
Pronunciation: \ˈmä-də-ˌrā-tər\
Function: noun
Date: circa 1560
1: one who arbitrates : mediator
2: one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion: as a: the presiding officer of a Presbyterian governing body b: the nonpartisan presiding officer of a town meeting c: the chairman of a discussion group
3: a substance (as graphite) used for slowing neutrons in a nuclear reactor
— mod·er·a·tor·ship \-ˌship\ noun


A moderator/Mediator keeps the peace. Hard to do when you have a persecution complex and think everyone is against you.


[QUOTE=rds13601]
Nobody is perfect. Instead of butting heads maybe you could of helped her!! As for religion, maybe she didn't know what to do. Maybe she didn't want to post the thread but then felt she didn't want to deny the guy his say. Obviously, you guys know it all. I find your arrogance quite amusing. After reading your wonderful comments, Pru was moved to tears. You guys should be happy with yourselves. Making someone who tried their best cry. Gee, that wasn't childish of you guys at all, was it?
[/QUOTE]


Uh, I remember when guys would try to tell her maybe she acted unfairly, she threatened to ban people.How can you help someone who takes the job "moderator" to mean infallable Judge, Jury and executioner? She certainly never let some people have their say. You speak of our arrogance? What of hers? Assuming we are all against her. Assuming she had to ban people to make her point. She tried hard? Well, many of us tried hard to look past her dictatorial style of moderatorship and went around like we were walking on landmines.

You speak of us...where were you? Funny you seem to not read any of the posts where she bears her faults and overbearing demeanor and attack us as if we should be ashamed. I am not! Funny she was not crying when she banned Shane for telling her she got off topic on the religion thread and he didn't appreciate her posting pics and her views on religion.

Guess it's easy to sit back an hide and not make the tough decisions then run to the aid of a woman when you have not been involved in the situation.

[Sonneilon]

I feel that she had beefs against people. Urban Sabateur comes to mind. Trying to incite a riot??? c'mon... Rich comes off w/o tact but he's trying to convey something. Jay left. Phu left. Where's Sephron13? THose 3 names come to mind and the 1st two, they told me why they left.

[rds13601]

The situation could have been handled better. Your long winded lecture Ender just proves my point about the level of maturity on this site. In fact, the "running" comment is quite amusing. You really are quite emotional when it comes to this. Why? I wonder. Anyway, you all have your opinions and I have mine. Pru has been nicer to me than any of you guys ever were. Whether she was rude, obnoxious, mean or otherwise; she still is a woman who tried!! Nobody is perfect. The lesson I'm trying to get across is that people make mistakes. I think i found everything out I needed to know about this site and the folks who run it. This is my last entry for good. I will never view this site again. You all have quite the clique going on here. Fortunately, I don't want to be a member. Nice knowing ya!!! Russ Spencer

[Hammerfel]

Yes, she did try, and I place a lot of value in that. I will often give people the benefit of the doubt on situations because they stepped up to the plate, as Prudence did.

That doesn't mean I can ignore repeated incidents, though. Good intentions aside, Prudence was a magnet for controversy, the opposite of what I need in a Moderator. A moderator is supposed to moderate controversies, not initiate them. Her goal was a good one, but her methods stirred a lot of people up.

As to your original point, I never heard of anyone calling Prudence names. I never saw it and no one ever told me about it. If I had, I would have taken action.

[ender098]

The situation could have been handled better? Ok...how? She had been warned by Mr. Fel not two to three weeks earlier about her out of control behvior on the religion thread. Has anyone had to give Graham even one warning? nope! Then she goes in, changes everything (making the forums a nightmare to navigate anymore) and then starts threatening people who question WHY she did it.

As for me.....Long winded? Guilty.Immature? Hmmm. I'm stating facts. I'm not the one calling people out like this is some honor thing on a schoolyard. Am I getting emotional?

Let me ask this....to everyone on Joe Dios;

does anyone else here besides RDS13601 think any of my responses have been emotional?

better yet;


"Can anyone here provide a thread, link, or IM where anyone called Prudence a B*TCH or disrespected her"

Sorry I had to ask that because I'm so immature and childish I listen to facts.

If anything I have tried to be the borg here and be totally unemotional. Yeah, it's hard for me to sit here and have someone tell me "You guys called her this and you guys did this" When I know better. I asked you after your first post to show ONE thread where she was disrespected through name calling and you didn't show one. NOT ONE! I KNOW! I looked. You claim to think she was wronged, yet I've done more work to prove to everyone here she was wronged than you, and I haven't been able to find ONE BIT of evidence.

And don't think that if I found a thread where she was called a "B*TCH" I wouldn't post it up right here and say "Damn, I was Wrong. so-and-so did call her a B*TCH. You were right." And don't think if you provide me with the link that proves me wrong STILL, I won't do the SAME THING! I'll back Prudence 100% if you can find one instance where someone called her the name you have claimed since your first thread someone called her. The reason this is eating at me so bad, is because if it did happen, I'd be pissed at the one who did it! But the only time I remember the word being brought up was when she would get all defensive and say "I know you guys think I'm Queen B*TCH around here...". Am I getting emotional here? If I am it's only because I'm actually working my @$$ off to see if what you are saying is true, searching through threads SHE screwed up looking for ONE quote, one link, anything and finding zilch. I'm doing more work to defend her and prove you right than you are and you're ATTACKING ME!

You said "The lesson I'm trying to get across is that people make mistakes" ..the lesson I'm trying to get across here is the mistakes Prudence made showed that she was unfit to moderate on this site. Not because she was a Woman, not because she ticked off some of the Old Guard, but because she was hard headed and took constructive criticism as a personal attack on her character, then used her powers to threaten and ban and basically run the site the way SHE wanted to. And not once, not twice but numerous times!

What did you find out about this site and the folks who run it? That the people here agree we are community and when one person comes in and starts abusing power and doesn't listen to reason and takes critism personally that we're gonna take it and cower like children in a corner? You found out what you wanted to find out.....when you get bullheaded and don't wanna listen and wanna throw around wild half-@$$ed assumptions and far fetched accusations with no proof to back it up, people here don't take you seriously. I'll debate you all night long, but this is really a one way conversation going nowhere, because no one ever called Prudence a B*TCH, it was only her persecution complex and no matter what we say, We're wrong and we picked on Prudence. Admit it. No matter what I say, no matter how long winded I am, no matter what evidence I provide, you're gonna believe we ganged up on Prudence because she's a woman or because we don't like her or whatever.

And what the heck do you mean by "You really are quite emotional when it comes to this. Why? I wonder." Do you know someting I don't? Obviously! You seem to know all about the times people abused and disrespected Prudence that no one else here knows about.

Russ, honestly, I do hate to see you go and especially so because obviously someone here twisted and skewed your opinion of us so bad that you can't listen to facts and reason and believe that with NO evidence, we are a big bunch of haters and conspirators that just waited until the little girl had a chance at bat and then all ganged up on her. But hey...your choice man......dueces! I really do wish you good luck....and if you know where the link is that someone called Pru a B*TCH, tell me before you leave! Even though you think I'm with some Grand conspiracy, I'm not. I wnna find the truth. I'm getting emotional because you keep taunting me like you know where it is and you won't show me where to find it!

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Hammerfel]Yes, she did try, and I place a lot of value in that. I will often give people the benefit of the doubt on situations because they stepped up to the plate, as Prudence did.

That doesn't mean I can ignore repeated incidents, though. Good intentions aside, Prudence was a magnet for controversy, the opposite of what I need in a Moderator. A moderator is supposed to moderate controversies, not initiate them. Her goal was a good one, but her methods stirred a lot of people up.

As to your original point, I never heard of anyone calling Prudence names. I never saw it and no one ever told me about it. If I had, I would have taken action.[/QUOTE]


You know, Fel, I really hate you. You're like Edward R. Murrow, you can say in 5 words what it takes me 5 pages to say. And does that offer of taking action still stand? I've been scouring the posts for goin on 3 hours now looking for that thread..... Whether RDS13601 believes it or not, if I find evidence someone disrespected her, I'm still gonna act on it....

Even though I'm an immature windbag! ;)

[Urban Saboteur]

Actually guys it wasn't in a thread, at least not at first, from my memory it was a disagreement me and pru had. I remember disrespecting Pru. The thing is, we (so I thought) had made all this up.
I wanted to show my geniune sincerity for all of it, I wanted to proove that I was sorry for my name calling, I lost my head and called her a name, i sent this over MSN or maybe an email or PM.
This was quite a while back, after discussing it with a friend, I realised it didn't matter what message i was trying to get across, it really didn't matter whether or not people actually listened to my point, what mattered was that my parents didn't bring me up to treat a woman with such disrespect.
I apologised. I sent emails, I constantly sent her IM's to try and someway offer my apologies. Eventually Pru was good enough to respond and say that
"lifes too short rich'' again pru was right, but from my standpoint we'd talked on MSN and PM on Joe Dios way after that incident, so from my viewpoint all was good up until about the time the religious thread came into play, she ruffled shane's feathers, and it all kicked off again.

I came out here to say this because if I think about everything that has happened, I can only remember that time I sent those derogatory remarks, me and pru had got past this to my understanding, heck, I even sent her a UK exclusive quarrell I wanted her forgiveness and understanding that no matter what disagreements we had, we could put it past us and forget about it, since we were at joe dios, i couldnt buy her a drink, so I bought her a figure from ebay uk to bury the hatchet so to speak.

This is the only incident i can recall where I resorted to name calling, again I wasn't totally proud of it, the end product was one where it made me look stupid and idiotic and in fact childish and cowardly, i lost my focus and control on the situation and i publicly apologised. I've done some stupid things here, real stupid, if anything it should be setting an example to people of how not to react to situations.

Whatever the case, it wasn't just this one incident, If prudence has told Russ about this incident, then I guess it's only with just cause that he feels pru has been hard done by,. however i'd like to know if it is this incident, whether or not he knows that me and pru had apparently settled this along time ago.

RDS seems to be eliminating the fact that prudence didnt just ruffle my feathers a few times, there were more than enough people she had issues with, so again from the shadows what looks like people are ganging up on her., when really it seems the ultimate decisions she made without consent. Upset more people than she was letting on., I don't want russell to leave, infact there have been a few people who said they were leaving and are still here today, me included.

The facts are put in front of you russell, if you leave now without discussing them, and saying exactly what you've been told and by whom., we'll just assume then that you have a hidden agenda elsewhere?

I've asked, frank has asked you not because (we're in a clique) strangley someone else springs to mind when i hear that.. so maybe your acting on bad information? but we've asked because we want to get to the bottom of all of this, it's never been Joe Dios way to simply just let things go, Prudence still can be an important member of this community and so can you! Despite everything i even posted up my thanks for her time and so did alot of people, so did Hammerfel.

So .. don't leave without at least coming out and explaining who you've been talking to or what you've been told. I've got nothing to hide here, i've already admitted for my past behaviour and if someone else is bad mouthing me .. i'd rather hear all this from them, rather than a messenger? You understand where I'm coming from?

This shouldn't be taken to PM either, things can be ''fabricated'' on PM and hidden away, I know it doesn't look great for either person slanging in public, but we need to sort this out. If you need to talk to me anyway on MSN, go for it, just send me your MSN Handle and i'll add you. Better still urbansaboteur@hotmail.co.uk
Rich

[silentdusty]

Regardless, of who said what to who, it doesn't matter, it is in the past, and until Russ fired up the debate again it was probably close to all but forgotten by most people.

I'm sorry that you choose to leave Russ, it's too bad that you feel the way you do. I for one have enjoyed my time on this site, I have dealt with some great people, but like life, every once in a while someone slips up or someone gets irritated with someone else, it is bound to happen. There are many different and varied personalities on this site, and this is probably one of the only boards I've seen where there is very little flaming going on and when it happens it's nipped in the bud, this is good to see.

The people that frequent Joe Dios are a good group of people, and as far as Pru is concerned, I think she tried very hard to do a good job as moderator, she just took things too personally, and it affected her judgement when doling out bans etc. It happens, these are real people here, not robots.

I look forward to continuing to be a member of this site. I also look forward to conversing with Pru, and everyone else here. It's really too bad you are choosing to miss out on a great community Russ.

....."That's just my opinion, I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller

[ender098]

To wrap things up;

1.) I was wrong. Someone did disrespect Prudence once. Even though it was handled, there is evidence it happened. So I was WRONG on that count.

Id' like to thank Rich for coming out and admitting that. (And scold him for doing that!)

2.) I'm done with this thread. It has shown me what I NEED to know about people here. They will support each other and stick together. They don't hold grudges. They care more about the truth coming out than trolling for emotional responses. And Russ, if you chose not to be part of this community, I'm sorry, but in my Opinion, it's your loss!

I do think a new thread is warranted.....hmmmm.....

Mr. Fel, Graham...and anyone on here, please, if I step out of line, let me know, please?

[Sonneilon]

There has been some... inquiry of why Russ is bringing this whole topic up. Am I worse mod than her? (lol)

[lehsreh]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]There has been some... inquiry of why Russ is bringing this whole topic up. Am I worse mod than her? (lol)[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Red]
OH GOD DUDE, YOU TOTALLY SUCK... NO, REALLY! naw, a good mod is someone who isnt thought of as a mod until it is time for action.just like a good boss. that is what and who you are.

you know 2 really bad things about this is, scarlett really dids have some good pics that i am going to miss. also, this has to be hard for flint. he hasnt said anything on the subject, but it has to be rough.[/COLOR]

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]There has been some... inquiry of why Russ is bringing this whole topic up. Am I worse mod than her? (lol)[/QUOTE]


Yes, you're a Lousy Moderator...but you're in the Illuminati, so you're safe! LOL (I hope everyone realizes I'm being Sarcastic!)

[haradrel]

I'm putting a huuuge Jeeze Louise stamp on this one.
Seriously people, look at other boards - ANY other board, forum or whatever and you will see here that this place is a 9,999999 out of a perfect 10 when it comes to politeness, seriousness and people being adult about things, stepping up to the plate and admitting they were wrong.
People will be people and go about things their way, I actually never caught on to stuff that had happened internally basically because I am to Young a member.
I do however feel I had to say something since I am partially to blame about the whole religion post, I think it was me that first mentioned it at all in the first place.
So I am sorry to everybody that it ever came up, but some good did come out of it, we now have clear guidelines about it (Tho shalt not speak of OT religion etc), which is good!

I also have to mention that I had no personal beef against GS, she was an upstanding girl and treated me fairly - I saw she was quick to nip things in the buds, but I figured that was just her way of moderating and took that into account when doing stuff. Personally I liked her as a mod, but then again I haven't been here for that long, so I feel like even though I am part of the community I have little or no say towards this.
My point (I think I had one at some point...) is simply that we need a moderator, we really do, if not to just remove the spam and keep things civil. Even with self policing things get out of hand because well we're human (except for 5th, I'm pretty sure he is an alien of some kind - his work is just to darn good ;) )

To the people that chose to leave - (and this is going to be immature) Sux to be you! - you will never find a place as amazing as joedios ever again. If I had such strong opinions about something that I loved I would rather take a break and come back instead of leaving it immediately once there was something that looked like a problem, these things do sort themselves out (as I feel this has, since everybody that wanted to have had their say, and things have been cleared up, apologies have been made where they should and generally everything has been checked, re-checked and made certain of).

Can we get back to posting cool shots of our action figures now please? I need my daily dose of visceral action shots! (I'm a visceral junkie). :)
-----------
edited:
"There has been some... inquiry of why Russ is bringing this whole topic up. Am I worse mod than her? (lol)"
Sonneilon - You're a moderator? :eek: I think I knew that but forgot it! Seems to me your doing a great job, Ninjaing me like that!

[ender098]

Actually Haradrel, that was very well said and you do have a say here as a very respected member of this community. Everyone has a say. I think this all started because most disagreed with a few and rather than the few admit that's all it was, a disagreement, they saw it as a conspiracy because they didn't get their way. 'nuff said.

[haradrel]

[QUOTE=ender098]Actually Haradrel, that was very well said and you do have a say here as a very respected member of this community. Everyone has a say. I think this all started because most disagreed with a few and rather than the few admit that's all it was, a disagreement, they saw it as a conspiracy because they didn't get their way. 'nuff said.[/QUOTE]

:) Thanks man, that means a lot coming from you (just an example people, here we have 2 guys at the opposite end of the whole 25th thing, yet we agree on this and can speak civil to one another - shocker? not to me, ender has strong opinions which I respect a lot, because he also takes cool pictures, and he ALSO always treats people fairly even when disagreeing with them. - Self policing in action ;) )

[Sonneilon]

I thank BOTH of you for bringing this back to a head cuz I was debating whether to lock this down. I'm a bit sick of drama (as Frank is too). BUT what has to be questioned is, "just because I'm sick of drama, does that mean I lock down anything I do not like???" Therefore, this will remain open until... Well, until the fighting starts up and can't be reconciled.

And man, why you guys all making me go in MOD mode???

[haradrel]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]I thank BOTH of you for bringing this back to a head cuz I was debating whether to lock this down. I'm a bit sick of drama (as Frank is too). BUT what has to be questioned is, "just because I'm sick of drama, does that mean I lock down anything I do not like???" Therefore, this will remain open until... Well, until the fighting starts up and can't be reconciled.

And man, why you guys all making me go in MOD mode???[/QUOTE]

I read that as GOD mode and was about to go "haxxor!" (A little geek humor for you guys :D ). I do agree tho that drama like this I can be without, but for the people involved it probably is a sore point, so I figure let it stay open (My opinion, Mods words are law as we all know ;) ).
I do have a question tho, has Scarlett left us completely? (if so then that's our loss IMHO) If she hasn't then Red if you feel up to it, or feel like it, your input on the situation would be greatly appreciated.

[ender098]

Graham, go ahead and lock it. All that need be said here was said. All that's left is Drama. Any objections?? Anyone???

[Urban Saboteur]

I object.
I think if the said parties haven't responded by a week then there won't be any drama to add.
However I think it's only fair to leave this open, I'd like to see what both General Scarlett and RDS13601 have to say on this.
Regards
Rich

[haradrel]

[QUOTE=ender098]Graham, go ahead and lock it. All that need be said here was said. All that's left is Drama. Any objections?? Anyone???[/QUOTE]

I'm with Urban on this one - lets see if we get a response from some of the people involved that might throw some light/create some thoughts on the subject.

I'd like to copy and paste something that I read in a forum about martial arts at one point (I was the head instructor and founder of the first Capoeira group in my home town - a bit OT but the thing I read is gold!).

Exchange the words styles with whatever is fitting. (sides in a debate for example)

its not just style vs style, the issue comes from a much more deeply rooted paradigmatic phenomenon in the
learning process. Namely, you survive, grow, learn...interact with the Universe...based on what you already
know or are presently learning. We have a very deep instinct, to stand by what we believe in because it
inherently defines what we do and why we do it, our reality.

When someone comes along and asks what style is better, it automatically challenges the paradigms that you
have chosen to accept as reality and began ingraining in your head. This causes some people to turn around
and say, "This is crap", or, "Well really this is not a very good idea", which then perpetuates the entire
dynamic taking place. Changing paradigms, being open to "rewiring" parts of your brain is a process that
physically takes place via a variety of chemical means. It can be very mentally painful for some and easy
for others, while others yet will simply put up a wall to all possibilities and lash out. It is the way of
the world, martial arts or not...

[Urban Saboteur]

It's also my point that .. well if we are indeed a ''clique'' .. to shut this down so quickly would only add fuel to the fire that we don't listen.. and we are ignorant..
the point is.. we do listen and do want feedback on this.. so please if anyone else has anything to say lets hear it.. :D

[Sonneilon]

Like I said, I'm leaving this open. If nothing hapens for a week, there's no need to lock it down, it'll just disappear.

GIJOck already knows of another dramatic point in my life right now! lol

[ender098]

Excellent points......I'd argue that since the first thread I have been asking for some sort of proof as to what happened and got nothing from the parties that claim they were slighted. There was a little, but since it didn't come from the parties that seem to feel slighted, I feel they only want to keep the drama going.

Seems we can't win here....we keep open the thread, we're childish and looking for drama, we close the thread, we're a Nazi Clique.....

I'd rather be childish, I guess......agreed...keep it open for at least a week.....

[G.I.*Jock]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]Like I said, I'm leaving this open. If nothing hapens for a week, there's no need to lock it down, it'll just disappear.

GIJOck already knows of another dramatic point in my life right now! lol[/QUOTE]

What's life without a few drama's bro? :D

You're a bloody drama magnet so you are! ;)

D :D

[sithviper]

My One and Only statement on this topic. I have not seen anything that has happened in the past. I have never had problem with GS or anyone else. I tend to avoid topics like this, I’m just getting tired this frakking topic keep on popping up. There more important things going on out there, such as a member here is/was scheduled to go under knife today. Our thoughts should be there, not on this pettiness. It doesn’t matter who said what anymore. What is done is done. I assume most of us here are adults (who should know better), so GET OVER IT ALREADY!

Let’s get back to why we all came here, taking pictures of what ever genre of Joes you like.

My 2 cents

ps: I like pie :p

[Mysterious Stranger]

[QUOTE=sithviper]Let’s get back to why we all came here, taking pictures of what ever genre of Joes you like.[/QUOTE]

Quoted for truth. Seriously, ever since I joined there have been little hints dropped here and there about this kind of crap and honestly its most of the reason I don't post on the forum side of the site. I came here and joined to post some cool pictures and discuss them. The rest I can get elsewhere with none of the drama.

[QUOTE=sithviper]ps: I like pie :p[/QUOTE]

I'm more of a cake-eater myself but I don't want to start that drama. :D

[lehsreh]

[QUOTE=haradrel]
I also have to mention that I had no personal beef against GS, she was an upstanding girl and treated me fairly - I saw she was quick to nip things in the buds, but I figured that was just her way of moderating and took that into account when doing stuff. Personally I liked her as a mod, but then again I haven't been here for that long, so I feel like even though I am part of the community I have little or no say towards this.
[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Red]
WOW! it really seems like you have been on here for a lot, lot longer then that.[/COLOR]

[Scarrviper]

[QUOTE=Mysterious Stranger]Quoted for truth. Seriously, ever since I joined there have been little hints dropped here and there about this kind of crap and honestly its most of the reason I don't post on the forum side of the site. I came here and joined to post some cool pictures and discuss them. The rest I can get elsewhere with none of the drama.

[/QUOTE]

Agreed, I rarely ever post in the forums at all because of drama like this. When I first saw this thread I was pretty confused. I have avoided these threads about the GS controversy. From what I had read and seen, there were definatly some issues going on. It's over now, lets move along, have fun, and post more pics :) .

[Agent Viper]

And i thought everything was over.

Wel Rds whatever the heck your name is,

No one calls Gen. A Female Dog.

I personaly thought she was awesome,
so no hard feelings to her.

And about the face to face thing, we wouldn't meet to have a fight. We'd go to play with Joes :D :D

[Rambo]

I am with Urban S. on this: General Scarlett should express herself.

A week will be fine for keeping the forum open.

From my point of view, she is not more the MOD but a valious member, she has done very nice pictures and developed a very interested joeverse story. Nobody wants her out of this place.

About the RSD's toys, is GS decision what to make with them.

About Graham... i've told you, you are ugly :D

[haradrel]

[QUOTE=lehsreh][COLOR=Red]
WOW! it really seems like you have been on here for a lot, lot longer then that.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Thanks :) I joined at: 01-17-2008, so not exactly new, but I haven't been around as some of the 'old folks either.
I also tended to stay outside the forum and just look at the pretty pictures (which is mostly what this site is about), then the how-to section came up and I started participating in the forums more.

I guess in cases like these a lot of people tend to "butt out" as they feel they have no say, or little say, or rather they don't want to step on any toes. But it is important for stuff like this to be aired once in a while, or else there will be an explosion out of nowhere with furious posts about things that has been beneath the surface. The way its being done here is just brilliant. Everybody, though very sensitive about certain stuff (and who can blame them - see the martial arts style quote I had earlier for why that is ;) ) they keep a level head and just want to get to the bottom of the problem without resorting to name calling and other things.
Again I have to give Kudos to the community here - I'm not sure everybody "gets" how good this place really is, and how this thing here was bound to happen, but happened in such a way that its actually made this place better (well time will tell, but I'm pretty sure this is a good thing to get out/off our collective chests).

[Bayer]

[QUOTE=haradrel]I'm putting a huuuge Jeeze Louise stamp on this one.
Seriously people, look at other boards - ANY other board, forum or whatever and you will see here that this place is a 9,999999 out of a perfect 10 when it comes to politeness, seriousness and people being adult about things, stepping up to the plate and admitting they were wrong.[/QUOTE]
I'm not certain that 9,999999 out of 10 is really that accurate. People are people and many have a problem admitting to their own mistakes. It does not matter who these people are; lurker, poster, blogger or moderator. Many of the other sites I'm a member of have a lot more controls in place. There is a lot less freedom to express opinions and exchange ideas on these sites either because of the moderations or simply because of the layout.

People will be people and go about things their way, I actually never caught on to stuff that had happened internally basically because I am to Young a member.
I do however feel I had to say something since I am partially to blame about the whole religion post, I think it was me that first mentioned it at all in the first place.
So I am sorry to everybody that it ever came up, but some good did come out of it, we now have clear guidelines about it (Tho shalt not speak of OT religion etc), which is good!
Honestly, Haradrel, if it had not been this thread it would have been another. No personal comment toward General Scarlett, because there are subjects that inflame each of us. Religion, Politics etc. are fundamental to our character. These subjects are dangerous because they a very personal to each person. They can bring out the most savage reactions.

I also have to mention that I had no personal beef against GS, she was an upstanding girl and treated me fairly - I saw she was quick to nip things in the buds, but I figured that was just her way of moderating and took that into account when doing stuff. Personally I liked her as a mod, but then again I haven't been here for that long, so I feel like even though I am part of the community I have little or no say towards this.
You are a member of the community. Of course you have a say in the matter. Whether you choose to voice an opinion is you prerogative. But should you voice that opinion, you should, with a few mutually understood rules of conduct, be allowed to. The point is however, that those mutually understood rules of conduct be in place.

My point (I think I had one at some point...) is simply that we need a moderator, we really do, if not to just remove the spam and keep things civil. Even with self policing things get out of hand because well we're human (except for 5th, I'm pretty sure he is an alien of some kind - his work is just to darn good ;) ).

It is true...we need a moderator. Every site needs a moderator. We are all in essence grown 10 year olds who play with toys. The simple fact is this is a hobby that we each derive some pleasure out of. I can only say that when there is an arguement on this site that reduces our enjoyment of the hobby, it needs to either be taken off line or settled without resorting to the kind of difficulties that these issues have become.

To the people that chose to leave - (and this is going to be immature) Sux to be you! - you will never find a place as amazing as joedios ever again. If I had such strong opinions about something that I loved I would rather take a break and come back instead of leaving it immediately once there was something that looked like a problem, these things do sort themselves out (as I feel this has, since everybody that wanted to have had their say, and things have been cleared up, apologies have been made where they should and generally everything has been checked, re-checked and made certain of).

I fully agree with this. There is no reason to invest the amount of time and money that this hobby requires and then throw it all away when there is a hiccup on one of the forums out on the web. While I like this site more than any of the others I've encountered, I would leave the site alone for several weeks if a conflict arose rather than leave the community altogether. And if the issue was so severe that a mere break wasn't good enough, then leave the site permanently.

Can we get back to posting cool shots of our action figures now please? I need my daily dose of visceral action shots! (I'm a visceral junkie). :)
Abso-freaking-lutely!!!!!!!

[Sonneilon]

I'm locking this one down too. Continued discussion will be between specific members ala email, pm or IM. The reasons are the same as Ender's post.