How do you see Cobra Commander?

[Sonneilon]

I need some help, ya'll.

I never had Cobra Commander in my dio in terms of a role that could be counted. I'm about to include him in the upcoming "DOOMSDAY MACHINE" story. But I don't know how to make up a persona for him. I can't help but lean on the earlier Marvel series AND the cartoon. But I want to make him special in my Joeverse. Not a clown. Not a buffoon (like the Batman's Joker from the old Adam West days). I want to make him angry and evil but he's gotta be 3-dimensional. He needs a reason for being the way he is.

Help me out, please??? :confused:

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red]mmm, im like you in seeing him as the cartoon. that is and always will be cobra commander to me. but at the same time i dont want him to be stupid and foolish when i use him. but at the same time i dont want him all to serious, that would make for a dull bad guy. i would love to have him as a magneto like character, but that wont work.

as for a reason for him being the way he is, im sure you remember that his brother was killed while drunk driving(killing snake eye's family) and CC blamed snake eyes family for it. then he lost his job or whatever and blamed "THE MAN" for this and for holding all small business owners and workers down. this is the reason he first started Cobra.

i dont like this and i think it is probably the stupidest thing i had ever read in a comic book to make a bad guy. i mean a guy who hates society so he starts a group of blur collar workers who wear blue and fight the government... sounds like dale from king of the hill should be second in command.

if you read my last dio you will see that my CC is determined and ruthless. there isnt much he will not do to reach his goals. kill a million people? sure, why not. send his best and most trusted men to die, even someone he loves? sure, he believes in what he is doing and knows sacrifices must be made. if it would achieve his goal, he would die himself. but even with all of this, he is not a fighter, that is why he has the battle armor. this is what makes him so dangerous, a man who knows and will do what it takes to get the job done, but at the same time he knows and accepts him limits. [/COLOR]

[Rambo]

You gave an answer in your question: He could be as evil as The Dark Knight's JOKER. IMO he is the best supervillain ever.

For me the COmmander just want to watch the World burn.

[ender098]

[FONT=System] My Problem resides in the fact that as soon as I saw the cartoon, that stupid voice stuck with me. I think the cartoon ruined a lot of the characters for me. CC with his sniveling lisp, Destro with his deep "James Earl Jones-wanna be" voice, the Baroness with her "Way too over the Top Accent". The cartoon, unlike the comic was made for kids, and it made everyone in Cobra look like blithering idiots. It's hard to take them seriously after watching that!

I see cobra commander as someone addicted to power and willing to take whatever steps he needs to in order to secure it! My Cobra Commander is cold, calculating and calm, but can burst into fits of crazed anger and homicidal rages. He is very tactical and strategic, but his flaw is his own greed. By wanting to overcome issues quickly, he takes the short cuts and usually ends up costing himself the victory! I see him like Gary Oldman's Character "Stansfield' in "The Professional"....crossed with Jack Nicholson's version of the Joker. Dangerous and unpredictable. [/FONT]

[Trench-Viper]

Stanfield are one of my favorite villians of all time btw.
Just some rambling thoughts from me as my sunday photo trip is interupted with a freak thunderstorm. :mad:
I think of Cobra Commander as a master mind on a budget. I only knew him from the comics so I am thinking secret society mixed with pyramid schemes and millitia terrorism thrown in. One of the most important issues in Cobra Commanders life was for me when he saw that his organization had become so incredibly powerfull and hi tech that it crossed over from an radical political movement who used ruthless terrorist tacktics from time to time to an true international supervillian organization with technolgy and powers which would change the world for the worse no matter who won in the end. And then he wanted to quit. So to me Cobra Commander is a spitefull demagouge and true beliver in his own idiology, and unlike Destro, Raptor, Dr Mindbender or Serpentor Cobra Commander once was a regular man a car sales man and he understand regular people and can motivate them and lead them. Cobra Commander is a facist who belive himself to be the greatest leader the world have ever seen and therefore he is the most important person in the world. His whole philosphy in life is centerd around this belivef and I think that is linked with his refusal to see that its also his own fault that he was a failure as a car sales man not just the goverment.
Cobra Commander is the perfect center of the universe in his own mind so he also becomes paranoid of others when one of his perfect schemes goes awery. He sees Democracy as corrupt and only under a single strong leader can the world thrive, therfore its never his fault when things go wrong its the followers fault. After all they can not lead themselves because democracy does not work in his worldview therfore its their influence on his perfect system that makes it inperfect.
The very things that makes Cobra Commander original in my mind is the fact that he is not the decendant of an ancient tradition, he is not the seventh son of the seventh son, he is not an insane genious he is a REGULAR guy with an incredble willpower and leadership ability, his retreats is because of his incredble selfishness not because he is a natural coward, allthough the diffrence between the two could be debated. I think of him perhaps as the opposite of the Joker in the dark knight? Cobra Commander could be less cool than the other Cobra Villians but more grounded in reality.

[haradrel]

My take on him is more like a leader of a religious cult. His followers actually believe that he can create Utopia once he is in control of the world.
The Devils Due comics reflected some of that in its last few issues, showing a militia group killing one of their own because he "betrayed" them in a small sense. - Basically he is a fanatic, devout to only his way of thinking. There are more then enough religious nuts to pick and choose from for background.
The thing that strikes me with the Commander is that beyond his fanaticism he is also very intelligent in the ways of marketing and schemes - getting normal people to follow him on nothing more then pure faith, and also earning money for his rising empire within the rules set by those he loathes and hate, as well as being covert about the whole thing, only drawing attention to himself and his organization when needed.

Fanatic
"Religious" leader
Economy expert
Schemer
and Intelligent.

[GoCards]

I like the idea of Cobra Commander being a very intelligent and ruthless individual. Very much addicted to power. I think his original file card said something about him being one of the most dangerous people in the world. I never liked the idea of him being a snivelling coward. Who would follow him?

[Self-Modifier]

I imagine him as he appeared late in the Marvel run, after his "resurrection" -- Very full of himself, somewhat over the top, always using unnecessary big words... But I also incorporate some of the cartoon characterization as well, such as being far more overt about wanting to conquer the world, and constantly blaming Destro when anything goes wrong (even if Destro had nothing to do with it)! I don't see the commander owning up to his mistakes if there's a scapegoat handy (and there usually is).

Oh, and I definitely imagine that he has his cartoon voice -- as it sounded in the very first mini-series, when it was deeper and more menacing. I thought it lost something as the series went on and the voice got pitched higher and became whinier. He sounded a lot more like Starscream -- who was of course played by the same actor, Chris Latta. Latta should have left the voice as it was early on to better differentiate those two voices.


EDIT: Oops, I just read that you're looking for a reason for him to be as he is... Personally, I think he just wants to rule the world because he thinks he can do it better than anyone else. It's nothing more complicated than that!

[lehsreh]

[QUOTE=Self-Modifier]
Oh, and I definitely imagine that he has his cartoon voice --

[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Red]

oh no doubt. without his voice he wouldnt be one of the greatest bad guys of all time. he would be just another bad guy with a mask.[/COLOR]

[troopsofdoom]

[QUOTE=ender098][FONT=System] My Problem resides in the fact that as soon as I saw the cartoon, that stupid voice stuck with me. I think the cartoon ruined a lot of the characters for me. CC with his sniveling lisp, Destro with his deep "James Earl Jones-wanna be" voice, the Baroness with her "Way too over the Top Accent". The cartoon, unlike the comic was made for kids, and it made everyone in Cobra look like blithering idiots. It's hard to take them seriously after watching that![/FONT][/QUOTE]
The way the Commander (and Cobra in general) was portrayed was one of the main reasons why I never liked the cartoon. I intend to write him as the most serious and intelligent character in Troops of Doom.

[Pit Viper v2]

I got to thinking about this not too long ago when I came to the realization that Cobra itself did not have any real ideology. So they want to take over the world. But why? The comics seemed to paint them as just being greedy and everyone was there just for the money. But even then there has got to be some cause that everyone is at least pretending to be interested in. As such I decided that in my Joeverse Cobra is a snake worshiping cult of sorts. One of these wacky new age religions. Essentially it attracts a lot of kooks. As such I view Cobra's Commander (and his followers) as being those conspiracy theorist types. He thinks 9-11 was an inside job, the moon landings were faked, the Nazis had a base on the moon, UFOs are alien spacecraft and are being covered up by the government, the elections are all rigged, secret societies are really running things, etc. He doesn't see himself as bad. Rather he sees his fight against the government as being a righteous one. He is not an over-the-top buffoon so much as he is the kind of guy that won't drink water from the tap because he thinks the government puts chemicals in it to control his mind. I also see him ultimately as a hypocrite. He condemns the US government as murderers but is willing to murder himself. He's crazy but not padded walls crazy.

[Sonneilon]

Wow. I like these insights.

Frank hit a lot of this stuff. That cartoon really messed with how he could've or should've been. As Destro said, "...Is a world class... BUFFOON!" The comment that people don't know WHY Cobra wants to rule the world, I've questioned that too. I REALLY do like how a lot of people are attributing Cobra to a snake worshipping cult. I might have to play with that one. See if I can make that one work.

Thanks for helping out everyone. The upcoming dio will showcase Cobra Commander even tho his role will be small.

Keep the insights coming if you want!

[Trench-Viper]

I do think that Cobra has an ideology.
They are meritocratic facists with a military bent. That is they belive the strong should rule and one should always obey the ones above you in the chain of command because they are better than you. This is liked to their belief that democracy is evil and corrupt and that the world is best served with a strong supreme leader.
The militaristic bent takes form of their incredible desire to uniform everything and everybody LoL.
Their meritocratic idiology is tainted with their love of ruthlessness or their view of ruthlessness being a mental quality rather than a lack of mental quality.
Its Heinelens vision of the perfect political system but with more realistic characterization of the individuals within the organization.
Off course their ideology is vaugely described by Larry Hama as he focused on the individuals personal journey.

[troopsofdoom]

[QUOTE=Trench-Viper]I do think that Cobra has an ideology.
They are meritocratic facists with a military bent. That is they belive the strong should rule and one should always obey the ones above you in the chain of command because they are better than you. This is liked to their belief that democracy is evil and corrupt and that the world is best served with a strong supreme leader.
The militaristic bent takes form of their incredible desire to uniform everything and everybody LoL.
Their meritocratic idiology is tainted with their love of ruthlessness or their view of ruthlessness being a mental quality rather than a lack of mental quality.
Its Heinelens vision of the perfect political system but with more realistic characterization of the individuals within the organization.
Off course their ideology is vaugely described by Larry Hama as he focused on the individuals personal journey.[/QUOTE]
Are you referring to Robert A. Heinlein? If so I have to disagree. Heinlein was a vocal supporter of Democracy but he did think it could be improved. In his books he brought up the idea that people's right to vote should be earned through voluntary service to their country. He also believed that people should be required to serve their country before they would be able to run for political office.

Cobra has been portrayed as a Dictatorship or Totalitarianism. Cobra Commander made himself the leader of Cobra without anyone's consent and he has no intention of ever giving up that power.

From the impression I got from his writing, Cobra would be opposite of what Heinlein believed in.

[Trench-Viper]

[QUOTE=troopsofdoom] In his books he brought up the idea that people's right to vote should be earned through voluntary service to their country. He also believed that people should be required to serve their country before they would be able to run for political office. [/QUOTE] Having the right to vote and having an political office is power. And when Cobra rules the world I belive that the blueshirt will be the ones to "vote" who will be in power and they would only vote for proven Cobra champions. Exchange volentary service to their country with volentary service to Cobra and you see what I mean.

[QUOTE=troopsofdoom]
Cobra has been portrayed as a Dictatorship or Totalitarianism. Cobra Commander made himself the leader of Cobra without anyone's consent and he has no intention of ever giving up that power.
[/QUOTE] I agree that its a dictatorship and totataliarian but Cobra Commander actually have the consent of everybody that follows him. People sometimes forget that allthough being a member of a democracy has its advatages dictatorships has its advantages too, sure you have to kiss the ass of those above you but you get to really kick down on those below you. That power over those below you in the system is the reason why so many people reject democracy even today. So Cobra is volentary.
I know that Cobra is not at all what Heinelen had in mind, but it is in the same territory. Think of it as and corruption of Heinelens ideas.

[troopsofdoom]

[QUOTE=Trench-Viper]Having the right to vote and having an political office is power. And when Cobra rules the world I belive that the blueshirt will be the ones to "vote" who will be in power and they would only vote for proven Cobra champions. Exchange volentary service to their country with volentary service to Cobra and you see what I mean.[/QUOTE]
After Cobra conquers the world would Cobra Commander really risk his position as Dictator for Life (Calvin and Hobbes :p ) in an election? Would he even allow his underlings to be elected? Or would he only promote his most loyal and those who brought Cobra victory and profit?

[zedhatch]

I kind of tackled him in as being sort of like Julious Ceaser, He THINKS he is makeing the world a better place by eliminating the "eliete" of society so that they might benifit under his rule.

His major downfall is his own arrogance and his constant mistrust of everyone, in fact he mistrusts them to such a point he is constantly ploting against his alies to "Cut them off at the pass." before ethey can betray them. This makes Cobra very fractured to say the least (Hence why they keep "losing" as they can't work together).

He isn't an idiot, but he also isn't as smart as he thinks he is. When he makes mistakes he constantly tosses the blame on others instead of learning from them (also he tends to make the same mistakes over and over).

BUT what he does have is alot of charisma, and his idea isn't that implosible (He latches onto the "Hot" issues and introduces drastic measures if he was "In Charge" thus those that follow him see him as an inspiration. The truth is that implimenting his "solutions" would also undermine everything democracy stands for, and while his ideas might be viable solutions, the cost is too great to any kind of freedom).

Also he is utterly ruthless, if a joe is captured they are probably going to be severly hurt (to the point they may have to quit the team). A huge incentive NOT to be caught by a cobra scouting party.

That pretty well the rough and dirty definition of how I view him.

[zedhatch]

[QUOTE=troopsofdoom]After Cobra conquers the world would Cobra Commander really risk his position as Dictator for Life (Calvin and Hobbes :p ) in an election? Would he even allow his underlings to be elected? Or would he only promote his most loyal and those who brought Cobra victory and profit?[/QUOTE]

Back to the Ceaser example, I bet he would make some sort of Aristocracy or Republic rule and insure the voters were "Loyal" to him. Pretty much the way Palpy did in Ep 3 or Ceaser did with Rome.

[Trench-Viper]

[QUOTE=troopsofdoom]Would he even allow his underlings to be elected? Or would he only promote his most loyal and those who brought Cobra victory and profit?[/QUOTE] He would only promote the most loyal and those who brought Cobra profit, and his followers would be okay with that because they can also be loyal and give cobra profit. "Anyone who are willing to fight for money and power are welcome to take up an rifle and fight alongside him". The promoting only the one who are usefull are the meritocracy part of the idiology.
The "election process" are like a direct democracy where the most powerfull claw their way on to the top and the others agree they belong there because they dont want to loose their position in the pack order.
In the Starship troopers movie there is a funny moment (one of many) where the general whos strategy had failed steps down and let another general step up as leader. I dont think Cobra Commander would done that heh heh heh.

[Sonneilon]

Whoa, a Palpatine association!

I played around a little bit of that when I was doing GI Joe2050 (a comic). Cobra had developed a 'new' weapon that was placed all over the world. With a single touch of a button, he could detonate these and annihilate the whole world. He said that if any city/state/etc wanted to be spared, they'd have to side with him. He exampled it first off by destroying a few small U.S. cities (Billings, Mt, etc). That was just enough for some of the leaders of their countries to side with him.

That's the annihilistic side of Cobra Commander. Where it turns slightly cartoony is the relation between Destro and CC. See, Destro has a lot to lose if CC goes thru with this 'hair-brained' plan. As usual, they start arguing and a shoving match ensues. CC is pushed onto the controls that detonates these weapons all over the world.

The sci-fi element is that once the button is pushed, an energy shield resistent to the new weapon activates and protects the various cities around the world. (these were, of course installed by Cobra/MARs). The world is, for the most part, destroyed. All the Joes dies. Billions of people perish in an instant. Only a few members of the Cobra hierarchy survive. (ie; they jump into the equivalent of Michael Jackson's sleeping chambers)

WHEN they emerge from their sleep, a few years later (y'know, after the radiation levels have decreased), there have been side effects from the chambers (c'mon, they WERE built by Mindbender and Overkill, what do you expect?). The surviving Cobra 'elite' have changed drastically. For starters, their aging process has been slowed so they look pretty much like how they did when WE first met them.

Zartan becomes obsessed with looks and makes sure NO ONE know what he really looks like.
Cobra Commander becomes obsessed with turning the world into one ruled by him.
Tomax & Xamot, tired of their mirror images become the, uh, Matt and Jeff Hardy of Cobra. Tomax has become the fighter, Xamot the thinker.
Baroness has gotten smarter and is in charge of finding rebel forces. She also often serves as CC's bodyguard.
Zhen Ji is Mindbender's daughter. She's young and takes over Mindbender and Overkill's role in Cobra. She and Zanya get along very well due to their ages.
Buzzer joins the Cobra military and learns discipline.
Monkeywrench becomes MORE ecstatic about explosives and just loves to blow stuff up.
Ripper becomes more violent, much like a nutzoid Wolverine.
Thrasher enjoys cruising the lone highways of the US. He believes the 1950s were the best era of history and looks a lot like a greaser.
Torch's obsession with fire has become so fanatic that he's injecting nanonites into his brain so he can mentally control the flames from his weapons.
Zandar has gone, ahem, goth. A violent goth who act as the assassin for Cobra and the Dreadnoks.
And then there's Zanya and Zarana...

Since the Joes are all dead, a small group of people who survived "Judgment Day" have formed their own special rebel force. Calling it GI Joe, they barely remember the original GI Joe force. The team consists of :

Flint
Beach Head
Lady Jaye
Snake Eyes
Scarlet
LowLight
Spirit.

And don't think for a second that ANY of these characters are anything like the ARAH ya'll familiar with. ;)

[haradrel]

Sounds like an alternate universe ala Transformers and gijoe crossovers (they also went into the future where things changed drastically).

I like it by all means, its just not my joeverse ;)

[Sonneilon]

I wouldn't say it was alternative, it's more... It follows the same timeline as GI Joe that we all know. The fact is, I can't DRAW the current characters so it'd be easier to do my own thing (as usual)! lol I should post a few drawings just for the fun of it.

[Lava Boss]

Cartoon Cobra Commander started off fine, it was just the writers decided he was more madman than ruthless dictator is when it got sour...I could consider it a progression of his ego dealing with constant failures.

Comic book CC was ruthless to a fault, quick to discard those loyal to him. Piss poor way to run an organization. After he came back, he was a carciature...as much as later Sunbow CC was a carciature of MASS Device CC. He was never tactically competent in either medium. That's one truth, he is, militarily speaking, a buffoon on the battlefield. Strategy he's far better at, but then he has to trust others to carry out his plans. Dr. Venom said to CC "Why waste strategic talent on a tactical problem." Unfortunately, as he discarded lackeys, he had no one to remind him of that.

[Flatline]

Not Like A Bafoon Tool In The Toon But Like A Smart Ruthlesss Leader