JoeDios.com Forums - The Cartoons; Were they that silly?

ender098

12-10-2008, 08:29 AM

As some of you might know, I've been collecting the DVD sets. Mainly for the accessories (the MASS Device). Well, my wife sent me the DVD's to watch while I'm stuck here. I watched the MASS device and noted how corny and cheesy it was. (I remember as a kid watching the Cartoons and thinking how unrealistic they were.) Then I sat back and watched the Revenge of Cobra and Arise Serpentor, Arise. The more I watched, the less I enjoyed and thought, "My God, Hasbro signed off on this crap? " I finally got to "Pyramid of Darkness" and I had to quit. I couldn't finish watching them. It was too painful.

I can suspend my disbelief only so much! Water Robots made of water? A "entry of death" with spiked walls, buzz saws in the floor and a crazed robot that when a parakeet says "Hail Cobra Commander, the great snake rules forever" goes away and lets you through like nothing happened? What about everybody around the area? This stuff is normal for Cobra? No wonder they can't win a battle! Pink Florescent mud that is translucent and bubbles but isn't hot? A Javelin that creates bubbles? Fatal Fluffies?

Jumped the Shark? this whole thing jumped the Ocean....kinda like that Michael Jordan commercial... "Off Jupiter, around the rings of Saturn, off the moon.....nothin but net!" C'mon! I know it was written for kids, but are kids that gullible? I mean I watched it as a kid and thought it was hokey, I just watched to see how the animated Characters stacked up to their comic book persona's. Am I alone in this? I mean, there is a pleasure derived from watching the cartoons, if only to see our favorite characters in action, but God, these Cartoons are SOOOOO bad! Is it me?

And all of this BEFORE I start hitting all of their SNAFU's using my military logic (Like everyone in GI Joe can fly a SkyStriker? Or a Slugger can shoot down aircraft?) Please someone tell me I'm not just a cynical old man with no sense of nostalgia? Tell me that in the Grand scale of things, the plot devices in the cartoon were so stupid they didn't even catch the attention of 8 year olds!

Anybody...anyone......???

vader9900

12-10-2008, 08:55 AM

Ya know, being a Star Wars fan I hear the argument that "that is not realistic" or "that could never happen". No kidding, its a movie! If I want to see realistic, I will cut a whole in my wall and watch my neighbors. Its entertainment, don't over analyze it. If you want real, watch the History or Military channel. I never saw the cartoon in the 80s. I recently purchased the entire run on very high quality bootleg DVDs at a Toy Show. I have been watching it as I can, I find it very entertaining, thats the key word - it entertainment. I also get ideas for photos too. If you open your mind and not expect too much I think your Joe cartoon viewing will be much more enjoyable. I am 40 and I am entertained, would I rather watch Lost or 24, of course!

lehsreh

12-10-2008, 09:05 AM

[COLOR=Red]once again i say if were going to pick at the cartoon because of it being for kids then we need to pick at the whole joe line. everytime i say this most say but the comic is more realistic then the cartoon, true, but its still nowhere near being realistic. if it were real there would be one big battle and it would all be over because there is nowhere on earth a army as big as cobra could hide from the allied forces. thats another stupid thing, in the comic gi joe and cobra are not known to the public. no way the things cobra has done would go unnoticed.

back to the question, was it silly? yeah, the 90's were even to silly for me but tell me what cartoon that has stood the test of time wasnt. everyone talks about the new justice league, i love it also, but it didnt stand the test of time with its hard edged style. heck, it only lasted a few years. i think in one of the other threads about the cartoon i wrote about demographics. this has to be true because the ones who thought it was silly when they were a kid were older then myself. i can honestly say i took it all in without thinking how silly it was. i dont think its silly today either, because if i did, me being close to 30 i would have to stop buying toys because toys are really for kids.

one more thing. my buddy and i are wanting to see the new cartoon very badly(i was sigma six too before it came out) but i told him, and i still stand to it, "in 25 more years, the first joe cartoons will be the one everybody remembers, not the realistic resolute. dont believe this, look at how bad extreme did, it was edgy for that time. looking for realism in a cartoon is like looking for beachfront property in Alaska.[/COLOR]

troopsofdoom

12-10-2008, 09:13 AM

Couldn't get into the cartoon even when I was a kid so I've only seen a few episodes. One thing that annoyed me was that it ignored the file cards, things like rank (Duke is not in command), specialties (infantry grunts don't fly fighter jets) and the weapons the toys came with (everyone had laser guns). I found it very inaccurate to the established Joe mythos.

Lava Boss

12-10-2008, 09:19 AM

I enjoy Sunbow, but sometimes I gotta be in the mood for it.

They did get a bit grandiose at times. The water robots are over-the-top (and so effective, but never used again?!). PYRAMID OF DARKNESS has a lot of goofy stuff. A net holding down a space shuttle that's launching? Sky Striker wing slicing through a HISS tank. The slugger as anti-air weapon. The Cobra CLAW, on the ground, being able to shoot down a Sky Striker (A $3 toy being able to destroy a $20 one...or however much they were in 1985).

While some episodes were better written than others, you gotta check your brain at the door. It's mostly all tongue-in-cheek. Like how every Cobra could become a master of disguise and would have their mask or glasses on under a rubber mask. How could Bludd even pose as Dr. Van Der Meer when Bludd only has one good eye?

If you think those are bad...stay far away from Dic's efforts.

GI JOE Extreme is pretty goofy, too. Mayday impresses everyone by driving a limo off a cliff and rolling it in midair then safely landing. Freight jumps out of a plane and shoot his way down, the force of his laser guns shooting at the ground slowing his fall. Uhhhh....sure.

lehsreh

12-10-2008, 09:24 AM

[QUOTE=troopsofdoom]One thing that annoyed me was that it ignored the file cards, things like rank (Duke is not in command) and the weapons the toys came with (everyone had laser guns). I found it very inaccurate to the established Joe mythos.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Red]
the comics didnt go by the file cards either. to everyone duke is the leader, thats why i did my story to change that. they wanted to use bullets, but in those days cartoons were not allowed to. thats why they had to use lasers. heck, they couldnt have killed anyone even if they wanted to in those days.[/COLOR]

zedhatch

12-10-2008, 09:27 AM

You know BBI is just a few spaces over from the joes.

Note I mean that in a fun way.

But I don't want realistic first and formost. If we had this line all realistic, ok Scarlett, gone, Lady Jaye, Gone, Jinx, Gone, Cover Girl, Gone, women can't be used in combat. Snake Eyes GONE, He was handicaped in the line of duty, he couldn't stay on in the military.

Bazooka, Gone, Red isn't a regulation color.

Quick Kick GONE, No shirt no shoes no Service.

Duke Can't be leader just being a first St. (Speaking of why hasn't he received a promotion by now).

Clutch GONE, Rarely shaves.

I could probably go on, but what I am saying is there wouldn't be a GI Joe if it were realistic.

vader9900

12-10-2008, 09:34 AM

[QUOTE=lehsreh][COLOR=Red]looking for realism in a cartoon is like looking for beachfront property in Alaska.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Alaska actually has 33904 miles of shoreline with tons of beaches, you can even rent cabins on the beach. So I want my realistic cartoon. Just kidding.

lehsreh

12-10-2008, 09:44 AM

[QUOTE=zedhatch]

But I don't want realistic first and formost. If we had this line all realistic, ok Scarlett, gone, Lady Jaye, Gone, Jinx, Gone, Cover Girl, Gone, women can't be used in combat. Snake Eyes GONE, He was handicaped in the line of duty, he couldn't stay on in the military.

Bazooka, Gone, Red isn't a regulation color.

Quick Kick GONE, No shirt no shoes no Service.

Duke Can't be leader just being a first St. (Speaking of why hasn't he received a promotion by now).

Clutch GONE, Rarely shaves.

I could probably go on, but what I am saying is there wouldn't be a GI Joe if it were realistic.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Red]
so, so true. glad someone beside myself finally noticed that. now lets see how hard it is to get rid of some fake bad guys.

everyone loves destro, forget that $h__, hes sure as heck gone.

the widely loved zartan, a guy who has face paint, mimics everything, forget that.

forget serpentor

the baroness, she could be real, but you would never see her because she wouldnt see battle.

raptor, croc master big boa, anyone with a mask. i mean, why would they want to hide their face? it doesnt matter if the joes know who they are, they can walk up to a giant hidden base that no one saw being built and arrest them and the rest of the world doesnt know they exist.

about every troop would be gone. red, blue, whatever for camo. and how the hell do they always replace these guys, they would have to get every criminal in every prison to build a army like this.

storm shadow, dont make me laugh. ninjitsu isnt even in anymore, much less a ninja who can do the things he does while wearing white.

metal head, people dont walk around with rockets strapped to them.

now i know some are going to say, well a crazed guy might walk around with rockets and a odd guy might wear a metal mask. please, if were going to stretch it for these, we might as well stretch it for lasers as there are lasers in the world. [/COLOR]

Outrider

12-10-2008, 09:54 AM

The cartoon was ridiculous, from the dumb plots to the cliched characters (especially the bad guys). I could never get into it, and it has absolutely no influence on my Joeverse whatsoever.

troopsofdoom

12-10-2008, 10:10 AM

[QUOTE=lehsreh][COLOR=Red]
the comics didnt go by the file cards either. to everyone duke is the leader, thats why i did my story to change that. they wanted to use bullets, but in those days cartoons were not allowed to. thats why they had to use lasers. heck, they couldnt have killed anyone even if they wanted to in those days.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
The Marvel comics were pretty accurate to the toy line. Hawk was always in command and his figures had the highest rank as far as I know. And Duke turned down a commission. (I don't know if this stuff changed in the DD comics.)

No death is another thing that bugged me. If you're not aloud to kill people because it's a kids show, is War and Combat really the best subject matter to use? :p

ThinkTank

12-10-2008, 10:30 AM

the cartoon was so bad, but I was like 8 or 9, so they were ok to me. But.. I have not watched the new DVD's because I dont want to groan and go "pfft" every 4 seconds. I mostly watched it for the vehicles, the characters were secondary.

ender098

12-10-2008, 10:49 AM

Ok, let me RE-PHRASE my argument. I'm not looking for "BlackHawk Down" or "We were Soldiers" levels of realism, I just can't believe they made those cartoons with that lever of animation (which was good for those days), took and adult subject like war and terrorism and tried to slap a "Sesame Street" rating on it by making it that outlandish. I mean shows like "Silverhawks" and "C.O.P.S.", you could buy some off the wall stuff, because they were set in the future. GI joe was pushing it with a Jet pack and Laser Cannon in the 80's. I just did NOT need to see things like fatal Fluffies, Giant Tube Worms, and crappy robot cobras that never came out as toys.

Like I said...it's just me. Yeah, I like watching "Wanted" with Angelina Jolie, but it's a "check your brain at the door" thing. It's mindless, let loose entertainment. I can't buy the cartoons being like that. they were already like that with some of the other things mentioned above, but the crazy stuff they added made a show that was ALREADY pushing it into a farce for me.

The BATman

12-10-2008, 12:01 PM

Well, the only thing i can say about this really, is that i absolutely loved the cartoon as a kid. Totally. I was blown away by them. I still remember, to this day, the feeling i had after watching the first episode i ever saw (the one with radioactive Snake-Eyes): i was utterly exhilarated, and i rushed from the television to my parents to tell them about this great new cartoon i just saw, which i never did for any other television show.

Even years after seeing my last episode, i remembered a lot of the storylines, like the one from that first miniseries, and the episode where a Joe (Shipwreck ?) was captured and placed into a fake town with fake people that all melted in the end. And The Viper is Coming. And the one with the female Strato-Viper.

So i had absolutely no problems with all the odd stuff in them, like the mind controlled arena fights, and all the weird monsters employed by Cobra, and everybody flying a Skystriker (did anyone really have a problem with that last bit ? As a kid ? Seriously ? Kids cared about stuff like that ? Mindboggling.).

And today ? I recently purchased a few second-hand (third-hand, fourth-hand ?) GIJoe video tapes (you know, the stuff from before DVDs were around). And sure, the ridiculousness of it all clashed somewhat with my memories. But hey, it's a cartoon, i can live with ridiculous. I also bought a DVD with The Movie on it. Watched it for the first time since i saw it on TV those many years ago. And quite honestly, i didn't like it anymore (i did back then). It was bad, real bad. Then i watched it a second time, and it's kind of growing on me. I rather love seeing my toys come alive on the screen.

I think a lot of this can be thought about in terms of the eternal divide between GIJoe cartoon fans and comic fans. Personally, i'm a fan of both, but on all Joe forums it's quite clear that most GIJoe fans have picked a side. It sounds to me that those of you that are put off by the level of strangeness in the cartoons, are really expecting to see the (definitely more realistic) comic in animation (or the toys, which are more closely linked with the comic than with the cartoon). Which just simply isn't the case for the eighties cartoon, but might be so for Resolute.

vespapilot79

12-10-2008, 01:27 PM

So here is my feelings about the cartoon. I hauled ass home everyday from school just so I wouldn't miss an episode. I remember after watching, my brother and I would grab the Skystriker and Rattler and run around the back yard and front yards of our neighbors shooting the hell out of each other. I didnt care that they made some snake critter/guy out of some crazy dead a-hole leaders and tyrants from the past. I didnt care that there were big tube worms,or that a big stone statue came to life in Montezumas temple. (That was a bad case of Montezumas revenge)LOL. I just looked at it as the best thing to happen to cartoons since Scooby Doo and Robotech!! Sure everyone could hop in a Skystriker,they were a highly trained special mission force werent they? Im living proof anyone can fly a plane!! I can really. I think now there could have been some things that could have been different in terms of the reality of some of the equipment and their functionality. Didnt it get your imagination going as a kid of how you could play with your Joes? It did with me!! It was a great platform to which the possibilities were limitless with what we could do. As adults we are faced with the cruelty of reality and what war is really like and what is possible and whats not. I love the fact that there were jetpacks. Harsh reality, those things would burn the shit outta your legs and lower back!! Cobras jumping out Fang helis and deploying a chute in time to make it. Yeah right. You know what I say to it all??? F**K it! We got a kickass toyline that has lasted for 25yrs and still strong as ever. Look at some of the things we produce as a hobby/obsession? The best dio stories are here, custom figures and vehicles. All because of what we watched as kids 25 yrs ago.

lehsreh

12-10-2008, 01:45 PM

[QUOTE=The BATman]Well, the only thing i can say about this really, is that i absolutely loved the cartoon as a kid. Totally. I was blown away by them. I still remember, to this day, the feeling i had after watching the first episode i ever saw (the one with radioactive Snake-Eyes): i was utterly exhilarated, and i rushed from the television to my parents to tell them about this great new cartoon i just saw, which i never did for any other television show.

Even years after seeing my last episode, i remembered a lot of the storylines, like the one from that first miniseries, and the episode where a Joe (Shipwreck ?) was captured and placed into a fake town with fake people that all melted in the end. And The Viper is Coming. And the one with the female Strato-Viper.

So i had absolutely no problems with all the odd stuff in them, like the mind controlled arena fights, and all the weird monsters employed by Cobra, and everybody flying a Skystriker (did anyone really have a problem with that last bit ? As a kid ? Seriously ? Kids cared about stuff like that ? Mindboggling.).

And today ? I recently purchased a few second-hand (third-hand, fourth-hand ?) GIJoe video tapes (you know, the stuff from before DVDs were around). And sure, the ridiculousness of it all clashed somewhat with my memories. But hey, it's a cartoon, i can live with ridiculous. I also bought a DVD with The Movie on it. Watched it for the first time since i saw it on TV those many years ago. And quite honestly, i didn't like it anymore (i did back then). It was bad, real bad. Then i watched it a second time, and it's kind of growing on me. I rather love seeing my toys come alive on the screen.

I think a lot of this can be thought about in terms of the eternal divide between GIJoe cartoon fans and comic fans. Personally, i'm a fan of both, but on all Joe forums it's quite clear that most GIJoe fans have picked a side. It sounds to me that those of you that are put off by the level of strangeness in the cartoons, are really expecting to see the (definitely more realistic) comic in animation (or the toys, which are more closely linked with the comic than with the cartoon). Which just simply isn't the case for the eighties cartoon, but might be so for Resolute.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=vespapilot79]So here is my feelings about the cartoon. I hauled ass home everyday from school just so I wouldn't miss an episode. I remember after watching, my brother and I would grab the Skystriker and Rattler and run around the back yard and front yards of our neighbors shooting the hell out of each other. I didnt care that they made some snake critter/guy out of some crazy dead a-hole leaders and tyrants from the past. I didnt care that there were big tube worms,or that a big stone statue came to life in Montezumas temple. (That was a bad case of Montezumas revenge)LOL. I just looked at it as the best thing to happen to cartoons since Scooby Doo and Robotech!! Sure everyone could hop in a Skystriker,they were a highly trained special mission force werent they? Im living proof anyone can fly a plane!! I can really. I think now there could have been some things that could have been different in terms of the reality of some of the equipment and their functionality. Didnt it get your imagination going as a kid of how you could play with your Joes? It did with me!! It was a great platform to which the possibilities were limitless with what we could do. As adults we are faced with the cruelty of reality and what war is really like and what is possible and whats not. I love the fact that there were jetpacks. Harsh reality, those things would burn the shit outta your legs and lower back!! Cobras jumping out Fang helis and deploying a chute in time to make it. Yeah right. You know what I say to it all??? F**K it! We got a kickass toyline that has lasted for 25yrs and still strong as ever. Look at some of the things we produce as a hobby/obsession? The best dio stories are here, custom figures and vehicles. All because of what we watched as kids 25 yrs ago.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Red]it seems like the 3 of us are on the same wave pattern. i usually get downhearted here on joe dios because when i started all the vets hated the cartoon. since, i have noticed more and more people who not only tolerate, but enjoy the cartoon. [/COLOR]

Trench-Viper

12-10-2008, 02:07 PM

When I was a kid I did not like the cartoon because nobody ever died.. I wanted blood! Anyhow I only got to see like one or one and a half episode because when I was young we had no cable TV.. Sigh.
Cant even remember the episode just a lot of shooting.
I liked the comic though, not because it had a lot of death and mayhem but because if you did not want to read superhero stories it was pretty much the only choise exept for some old war comic and agent stuff. I did not like Destor or Serpentor because they were to supervillany in my oppnion. The comic had a lot good stories but also a lot of bad ones. I saw some GI Joe cartoon episodes on Youtube and they were funny in a childish way I think that the writers of the show were held to extreme care bear standards and that they tried their best with what they were allowed to do.

Lava Boss

12-10-2008, 03:33 PM

No death is another thing that bugged me. If you're not aloud to kill people because it's a kids show, is War and Combat really the best subject matter to use?

That's why they often treated it more as high adventure/James Bond stuff. Hasbro was funding the cartoon out of pocket to sell toys, anyway, not explore war and combat. The comic came about because it was illegal for them to make a toon before FCC regulations changed. Had things turned out differently, the comic debuting after the toon...the comic probably would be a whole different animal (total kiddie fare, like part of Marvel's Star group).

As to being true to something...true to what? Hasbro owns the property. They wanted a new lead hero character, rather than just making a new version of Hawk (which they did eventually anyway). Hasbro even wanted to intro Serpentor as if he'd been the true leader of Cobra all along. Imagine how fandom would've reacted to that. They wanted Slaughter, Fridge and even Rocky Balboa. What we dismiss as dumb, they used to keep fickle kids interested. And ARAH lasted a looong time, longer than any of its competitor...only to be killed off by Hasbro-Kenner corporate politics.

I guess that's where my loyalties layed, the comic and cartoon were just extensions of the toy line, since I "found" it first. Not that's the toy line was flawless, far from it.

Swindle

12-10-2008, 04:31 PM

Not feeling the argument. Thankfully, GIJoe is not a monotheistic mythos.

You want your realistic take on GIJoe, I prefer more of a Bond/Indy Jones action/adventurism with sci-fi elements. GIJoe does not begin, it does not end with the Hama-verse.

I can rewatch 20 Questions time and time again, any day of the week. The episode is that good. ;)

Sonneilon

12-10-2008, 05:58 PM

Good call, Swindle. I was talking to a guy the other nite and he was taking the DD stuff with a grain of salt. I do too. But I was thinking, "What if there was no Hama-verse and it started with Devils Due?" Would be take that as canon? Would we as kids? What if the Devils Due was the 1st intro to the GI Joe comic for us (not knowing of the Marvel run, let's say)?

I feel Hama did a good job in the beginning but due to Hasbro politics and the popularity of the toyline, things just got way out of hand. We all know that Hama wanted nothing to do with Cobra LA (and put his foot down). We all know that Hama hated the Serpentor concept (and was able to kill him off about 25 issues later).

As for the cartoon...

I too was one of those kids who would rush home after school just to watch GI Joe. IIRC, it was on at 3.30pm. I loved the cartoon as a kid but I did have questions now and then. Usually it had to do with, "Why they no use Airbourne more? Why no Torpedo? I wish they use Snake Eyes like he in the comic!"

And when the movie came out... "Why Snake Eyes just stand there with a pistol trying to fend off a big bug dude? Why he no use his ninja skillzzzzzzz!?!?!"

I enjoyed the cartoon for what it was worth as a kid. It really made some of the characters (Duke, Flint, Shipwreck, CC, Bludd, Destro, Baroness, Zartan, etc) so I can't see them any other way. It's very hard because I'd rather do my own thing and play off the filecards. The comic helped with other characters (Stalker, Snake Eyes, Scarlet, etc). I can't watch the regular episodes all that easy cuz it just makes my eyes roll more often than not.

BUT the mini-series stuff was pretty cool to me.

Sure, using a net to halt a space shuttle launch is whacked but anyway... It was definitely for kids. Like ARAH, some things are better left in the past, yes? (errrrr, that's my opinion on ARAH figures as you all know.)

Rambo

12-10-2008, 06:40 PM

I still like it. For nostalgia. I would LOVE to watch the new cartoons.

Self-Modifier

12-10-2008, 08:39 PM

Wow, a lot was posted in this thread in just one day!

I like the comic a lot, so I won't bash it. What I will do is defend the cartoon, which I enjoy just as much as the comic, but in a different way.

First off, I like that the cartoon gave voices to all the characters. To this day, when I read the comics, I hear the cartoon voices in my head. The dialogue was corny, but at least it "popped." "Eye in the sky, go in high! Gung-Ho Joe is goin' in low" may well be one of the silliest lines ever written for television, but it sounded good when Chris Latta said it, and I've never forgotten it.

I also love the background music, especially from the first two mini-series (as I'm sure you realize since I made MP3s of all of it, which Hammerfel hosted on this site). Again, when I read the comics, I hear music in my head from the cartoon, and it enhances the experience.

I also like the "high adventure/James Bond" feel that Lava Boss mentioned. To keep the attention of kids (or at least this kid), you needed more than just strict military protocol. The cartoon had the type of action you'd see in a 007 or Indiana Jones movie, and that really appealed to me.

As the BATman pointed out, what kid at age 7 or 8 or 9 cared or even understood that most Joes shouldn't be able to fly fighter jets? And if they did know, would they have cared? I wouldn't have! It seems a little weird to me now, but it doesn't detract my enjoyment of the show.

I also couldn't have cared less that Duke was bossing around characters with lower ranks than him. The cartoon said he was the leader, so I ignored the filecards. I knew he was a sergeant and therefore was outranked by a general or a colonel, but I just figured that he had been granted special authority to give orders to the likes of Ace and Steeler (I don't count Flint since his card gave him a lower rank anyway).

Finally, as to the subject matter -- I believe that the very first mini-series is the best of the whole show. The teleportation gimmick is kind of ridiculous (but again, I didn't care as a young child, and I doubt many kids did), but it did a great job of presenting all the characters and illustrating the universe fairly well. The Revenge of Cobra added more characters while fleshing out some of the ones we already knew and is my second favorite of the whole run.

After that, it's hit or miss. I personally hate The Pyramid of Darkness. The writing is childish -- and I know to someone who already has a low opinion of the show that doesn't mean much, but even when compared with the most childish of any of the other episodes, P.o.D. was ridiculously juvenile and simplistic. Then the series moved into stand-alone episodes, and there were some winners and some losers, but what I appreciated the most, in both good episodes and bad, was that everyone had an established character and they all behaved within the parameters you learned to expect. I've said it many times before, but I'll mention it again -- I love Larry Hama, but all his heroic characters sound the same! I could grab a line from a good guy out of almost any issue and ask you to identify the speaker, and I bet no one could tell a Hawk line from a Stalker line from a Flint line from a Duke line. They all just spouted generic military jargon. Meanwhile, I could grab a line from the script of almost any TV episode, and I bet there's a much better chance someone with some familiarity with the characters as presented on the show could guess the speaker.

Anyway, I reiterate -- I do like the comic, quite a bit. It has things I like more than the show, such as the intricate backstory, the soap operatics, and the fact that it was all the vision of one man. But I also love the cartoon. Maybe nostalgia is a big part of it, but the fact that I watched the entire series over again earlier this year and didn't flinch much at all tells me that there must be something more to it than that, if you can let go of your idea of how things are "supposed" to be and just enjoy it as a fun action/adventure/fantasy/sci-fi cartoon.

(And for the record, the majority of occasions when I did flinch while re-watching the show were all in The Pyramid of Darkness! It really is just that awful!)

(And P.S.: Nice call on "Twenty Questions," Swindle. That is one of the most right-on episodes of the whole show to illustrate a lot of the points I tried make up above! Everything clicked in that one!)

vader9900

12-10-2008, 09:59 PM

[QUOTE=Self-Modifier]First off, I like that the cartoon gave voices to all the characters. To this day, when I read the comics, I hear the cartoon voices in my head.

I also love the background music, when I read the comics, I hear music in my head from the cartoon, and it enhances the experience.[/QUOTE]

Both great points. I am sure all the cartoon haters do the same thing. I even do it when I am messing with my figures & setting up shots. We know what Cobra Commander, Destro & Baroness sound like fron the cartoon. How else would we know that Duke's voice is as cheesy as version 1's grin if we did not hear it on the toon?

ender098

12-11-2008, 02:00 AM

Wow. Strong feelings either way. Even though now I look at the cartoon and feel sick, it still does give me that nostalgic feeling. I remember waking up one morning to watch what I thought was a rerun and seeing Scrap Iron and Firefly and calling my buddy Scott at like 7:30, waking up his Mom (Who was pi$$ed!!!) to tell him it was a new Episode!

I think one thing that ruined it for me was the fact that my start of watching more "Adult oriented" cartoons was "StarBlazers", which dealt with themes like Genocide and combat and, although not bloody, people actually died! Although I thought that StarBlazers was a StarWars knock off until I found out it started in 1974.

guiltridden

12-11-2008, 05:55 AM

The cartoon was GI Joe to me, I was a kid and that was my window in to the GI Joe world I can rember having a VHS tape of the episode Red Rockets Glare in which Cobra puts real rockets on the top of these Red Rocket Drive In's who coincidentally Roadblock' Aunt and Uncle had bought. They call him Marvin in front of Recondo, Recondo snickers. As the rocket on the roof is starting to lauch Roadlock trying to stop it climbs on it along with Tomax and Xamot they fly on it it crashes in Washington Dc in the pond in front of the Lincoln memorial and they are all fine. I thought it was crazy as a kid but I didn't care I loved it. To this day I hear some of the voices in my head Major Bludd, Destro, Shipwreck, Cobra Commander, Zartan, Roadblock, Leatherneck, and Wetsuit just to name a few. The cartoon is awesome. The comics i read the Marvel run and I really liked it and thought Hamma did a great job with the restraints placed on him. Hamma was also great at the sub plot and bringing things back later on in the run. The Devil's Due comics take way too much crap were they as good as the Marvel run no but they are good did they mix comics and cartoon stuff sure but they did bring Joes back into comics hell they brought Larry Hamma back to writting joes. In closing it was much easier to show my mom what vehicles I wanted as a kid when I saw them on the cartoon which is Hasbro doing thier jobs as the show was a half hour commercial for the toys.

ender098

12-11-2008, 07:10 AM

the Voices....that's another thing that ruined it for me. Most of them were right on the Money. Roadblock was the quiet Giant (didn't like his Muhamed Ali Rhyming, but the voice was on or at least close!) Gung ho I thought could have been more French/Cajun sounding, but it was good! Duke, Flint, shipwreck,Mutt perfect with how I had imagined them (minus the corny dialog). BBQ was a treat! His accent was pure stereotype Boston! Scarlett was good too, just, I dunno....too young, maybe? Beachhead was 100% the way I imagined him speaking!

Where they REALLY botched up was Cobra! Baroness was a little corny, but I could accept it. Scrap Iron and Storm Shadow were ok. (Did Firefly ever speak?) Destro's voice would have suited him if he wasn't supposed to be a Scottish Lord! But he sounded like James Earl Jones with cotton mouth! And the All time disappointment, the no holds barred, king of all let downs was Cobra Commander. Here is a guy who built "A ruthless Terrorist Organization determine to rule the World", but he talked like pee-wee Herman with a lisp after sucking helium! What person in their right mind would follow someone with a voice like that? How can you take that sniveling, high pitched voice seriously? Don't get me wrong...Chris Latta has MAD voice skills, but whoever told him to play it that way should be shot!

I see Cobra Commander more like Gary Oldman as Stansfield on that movie "The Professional". Or Like Hannibal Lector. Genius, cunning, violent and dangerous and mad! But with that voice, he could never be more than a buffoon.

Self-Modifier

12-11-2008, 10:14 AM

[QUOTE=ender098]BBQ was a treat! His accent was pure stereotype Boston![/quote]Heh, I agree. It was so bad that it was good!

[QUOTE=ender098]Destro's voice would have suited him if he wasn't supposed to be a Scottish Lord! But he sounded like James Earl Jones with cotton mouth![/quote]I understand what you're saying here, but I don't entirely agree. Actually, I never even realized for many years that Arthur Burghardt was African-American (until I learned that he played Stalker too!). I just figured they wanted a really deep voice (which fits the character), but I think he tried to throw a little Sean Connery accent (or something similar) in there, which I'm guessing is where your problem lies. I do think the voice suits him, but I also feel that as the series goes on, he goes a little too deep and it becomes hard to understand him sometimes. As a kid, due to the abnormal deepness and the increasingly muddled accent (which reached its peak here), I could not for the life of me understand his first line in G.I. Joe: The Movie (all I could hear was "(throbbing bass) Cobra Commander (throbbing bass) world class buffon!")(and my TV back then didn't even have bass!)

[QUOTE=ender098](Cobra Commander) talked like pee-wee Herman with a lisp after sucking helium! What person in their right mind would follow someone with a voice like that? How can you take that sniveling, high pitched voice seriously?[/QUOTE]Like Destro, I think Cobra Commander's voice started out okay. Yes, it was scratchy and he was always prone to shrieking tantrums... But listen to him in the very first episode -- part one of the M.A.S.S. Device (and the rest of that mini-series too). To my ears at least, his voice sounds pretty deep and menacing. But later on, I think Latta starting mixing his Cobra Commander voice with his Starscream voice (who was always whiny from day one), and we got a sniveling Cobra Commander. However, I also feel that it sort of fits the "James Bond Villain" persona he was given on the cartoon. It was somewhat Blofeld-esque (classic Blofeld from "You Only Live Twice," of course). To use your analagy, I couldn't see a character played by Gary Oldman trying to draw a picture of himself on the moon, but I could totally see Donald Pleasance doing so! The voice was simply an extension of the over-the-top nature of the TV show Cobra Commander -- which though it may not be the way we all think he should be portrayed, certainly appealed to kids (the kids I knew, anyway).

That said, I will say that I tend to like Cobra Commander's portrayal in the comics better than on the show. He was far more cunning and ruthless, and you could buy him as the leader of Cobra -- but that doesn't stop me from still hearing the cartoon voice when I read his dialogue (and I actually think that voice enhances him in the later issues when he became super verbose and prone to using gigantic words for no reason).

lehsreh

12-11-2008, 11:15 AM

[COLOR=Red]a lot of real good points here. the voices are G.I. Joe to me too. thats why i probably wont like the resolute series. destro or cobra commandeer without their old voices, thats just not joe. destro and storm shadow were the best to me. i didnt know destro was supposed to be scottish, what did you guy do to notice this as kids?

one other thing, did any of you really know that a major outranked a sergeant as a kid? i sure as heck didnt. i spent to much time in school and playing to worry about stuff like other countries and military.[/COLOR]

guiltridden

12-11-2008, 12:07 PM

[QUOTE=Self-Modifier]

I understand what you're saying here, but I don't entirely agree. Actually, I never even realized for many years that Arthur Burghardt was African-American (until I learned that he played Stalker too!). I just figured they wanted a really deep voice (which fits the character), but I think he tried to throw a little Sean Connery accent (or something similar) in there, which I'm guessing is where your problem lies. I do think the voice suits him, but I also feel that as the series goes on, he goes a little too deep and it becomes hard to understand him sometimes. As a kid, due to the abnormal deepness and the increasingly muddled accent (which reached its peak here), I could not for the life of me understand his first line in G.I. Joe: The Movie (all I could hear was "(throbbing bass) Cobra Commander (throbbing bass) world class buffon!")(and my TV back then didn't even have bass!)

QUOTE]

Destro: "Cobra Commander is a first class buffon!" I still love that line.

Swindle

12-11-2008, 12:28 PM

[QUOTE=lehsreh][COLOR=Red]a lot of real good points here. the voices are G.I. Joe to me too. thats why i probably wont like the resolute series. destro or cobra commandeer without their old voices, thats just not joe. destro and storm shadow were the best to me. i didnt know destro was supposed to be scottish, what did you guy do to notice this as kids?

[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I knew Destro was Scottish as a kid. I didn't care. I liked the toon voice. I like pretty much all the toon voice. Chris Latta is the man. Cobra Commander was doing the job of someone who should be sane, but he was clearly insane.

I saw the a clip of that 8 minute toon on youtube, and the voices for Roadblock and Duke sounded suspiciously like Duke and Heavy Duty from Sigma Six. :mad:

Quality in voice acting isn't what it used to be, sadly.

cyko

12-11-2008, 12:31 PM

[QUOTE=troopsofdoom]...everyone had laser guns...[/QUOTE]
That's maybe the only thing I really hold against the cartoons. Hasbro went so far to make sure most everyone had unique weapons and Joes got the Snow Job "laser rifle" (power cell in the stock?!) and Cobras got the only recently produced German-submachinegun-laser rifle (at least it has a clip, er... power pack).

The DIC cartoons came after my time, so I was checking them out on the 'Net. I won't get started about my disappointment in the origins of the Python Patrol (which I otherwise like), but the writing and voicing are far inferior to the Sunbow series. This helped: in Episode 2 (DIC, remember), when Stalker kayaks down the creek to attack Destro and the Alley Vipers, I opened another tab of a random M-60 YouTube video in the background. FINALLY, Stalker laying down some .50cal hurt! :cool: (still gotta look at the "laser" bolts, though)

Sonneilon

12-11-2008, 12:47 PM

The S6 Duke actually made me like DUKE! It was like, "THAT IS HOW DUKE SHOULD BE!!!" This was based on the miniseries. HOw he was later on, I dunno.
Because of that, I LIKE how the Resolute is playing out. Recycling voices, that's normal. And at least it's Roadblock, not Heavy Duty, right? And yea, I think it's by Gonzo still.

Self-Modifier

12-11-2008, 01:41 PM

[QUOTE=cyko]That's maybe the only thing I really hold against the cartoons. Hasbro went so far to make sure most everyone had unique weapons and Joes got the Snow Job "laser rifle" (power cell in the stock?!) and Cobras got the only recently produced German-submachinegun-laser rifle (at least it has a clip, er... power pack).[/QUOTE]Well, back in the 80s you couldn't show real guns on kids' cartoons. In fact, for the most part you still can't now. I was amazed that Batman: The Animated Series got away with it!

I always did think it was strange that the folks behind the show gave everyone Snow Job's rifle, though -- I was thinking maybe it was for simplicity's sake, but all the Autobots and Decepticons on Transformers (also made by Sunbow) had their own individual weapons right out of the gate. I guess they figured using a weapon identified as a laser rifle on its figure's filecard would go over better than giving everyone their individual weapons and having them shoot laser blasts. Can you imagine Flint carrying a laser-firing shotgun?!?

However, in the second season, some of the characters were given their unique weapons. For example, Roadblock has his machine gun (but it fires lasers) and Low-Light has his sniper rifle (but it fires lasers). At least they tried... Anyway, my Joe display is pretty cartoon-oriented these days since the 25th line seems to embrace that aspect of the mythos more than any other. So all my 25th Joes are holding Snow Job rifles (with a few exceptions -- Scarlett has her crossbow, for example).