Should Ratings be removed from the Pictures Section?

[Urban Saboteur]

Ok,
At members request we're having a poll. I'm going to run the poll until August. That should give active members enough time to vote this time round.

Dont forget that we are asking active members of the community.

Should Ratings be removed from the Pictures Section?

This is largely due to the fact certain members rate the pictures poorly using second or third accounts and without actually giving a reason in layman's terms it pisses in peoples cereal..

So please vote. This is important, I'd like to think that when I tell people about Joe dios. I'm talking about a good group of creative people who we learn from and enjoy being part of the same community.

Rich

Oh and Please note this vote is public. People can see your vote.

[Outrider]

What I thought would be an easy decision actually took me a while to think through. At the end of the day I voted to remove the rating system for two main reasons. Firstly, it apparently can't be embedded into the reply system (if it could have been, I would have voted to retain it), and secondly (and more importantly) as I stated in the relevant thread, I would hate for a new member to become discouraged an quit posting because his photos received unexplained low ratings.
It's disappointing that we had to even make this decision because of some malcontent who lacks the courage (or intelligence) to put his name (and reasoning) to a low rating.

[Sonneilon]

Rich, thanks for taking the bulls by the horn. YOu can see I STICKY'D this for now.

[Urban Saboteur]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]Rich, thanks for taking the bulls by the horn. YOu can see I STICKY'D this for now.[/QUOTE]

No worries G. :D
I'm pretty much with Craig and most of the vets on this, its a shame we can't keep the ratings system, but it is flawed and obviously open to abuse.

Lets hope that with this poll we can get a clearer idea and perspective on whether it should be removed or not.

[Beast from the east]

I voted to get rid of it.Time for a change with removing this system so the idiots have nothing to play with and give a bad score on good pics.

[Scuba Steve]

I will man up and admit I voted to keep it. Although my vote was cast in light of the fact that I don't use it and am really indifferent. My vote was motivated mainly by the trouble Big H and the others would have to go to to get rid of it! In hindsight Craig makes a very good point that new folk may be discouraged by some nerdowell giving them a bad rating and I definately don't want to see that! So consider one of the "keep it votes" a very weak keep it!

[haradrel]

I chose no - just ignore the idiots for a few reasons.

Any voting system is broken because there are bound to be people that mess around with it.
But I've found it to be helpful in weeding out a few constructive criticisms once in a while.
Basically it all boils down to what people think, and people have various tastes. For my own personal use I can see why I didn't get a full score on one picture or a full score on another picture and try to learn from that. This hobby is not like that for everybody out there, but I actually try and improve my shots one by one - but again I tend to have some fun a long the way and post shots I like and know will fall into taste with some but be abhorred with others (but I think its fun and might give some inspiration to other ideas or pictures).

My 2 cents

[troopsofdoom]

There is no abuse of ratings going on. Half the photos posted should be getting an Average (3) rating just by simple definition of the word Average. The ratings are almost all 5, sometimes a 4. The rating system is not being used to attack other members, if anything people are being too nice with it's use.

I voted to keep the ratings. It's a lot of work to start altering the site just because some people think they deserve a perfect rating all the time.

[t34bag]

other than the amount of yellow blocks on top of the picture what pupose does it serve?

I would rather people leave comments and if we want a ratting system just have them type 4 out of 5 starts.. or whatever... if it served a purpose then keep it

Does it serve a pupose other than telling you what people think of your picture?

[Rambo]

I voted NO.
Could it be embedded into the reply system?
If yes, does it have a cost?
If yes, are we ready to cover it?

[guiltridden]

I am always a fan of seeing a ton of yellow blocks above one of my pics but I never really vote on anyone elses pics and there are some where I can't believe how low they are rated. The comments are what I really pay attention to so I voted to get rid of the rating. If my pic sucks tell me why don't just click a box.

[Lava Boss]

Can't decide. How's that for contributing nothing?

I'd say that 1-5 scale is too limited. It means an above average photo is good and a below one is bad...hardly seems accurate. I've been more a 10 point scale person.

[Dreadnok Dread]

I vote If we do keep the rating system, that there is a clause in it like a comment box that explains your rating if its 3 or under just for the critique sake. But I don't know if that can be done, I know nothing of php and html for websites. The ratings don't bother me, yes I do believe they might discourage some people but I am of the mindset that if someone says great shot but lose the stands or lose the light i'll retake it for learning purposes or do it better next time. Its all fun and games but we're here for many reasons. We choose joes dios because its one of the best, if not the best site for joe pictures and dios. To me I want to learn from the great builders and photographers on here and get better at something I love doing. I honestly don't get my ratings even used half of the time and when I get a 5 I'm amazed people think its worth a five and sometimes when I get a 3 I think the reverse. As well I think some of the low ratings will help the younger kids or newer members out. Why? I think that a lot of us on here take hours to set up for shots and take hours to build certain dios so credit goes were credit is due. Give a five to something that looks good clean and well though out, with good posing and a great set. while a 2 or 3 sometimes is deserved because maybe people get excited and just want to start shooting flicks and dont realize for an amazing shot it takes time and patience which I am still trying to achieve. I learned that myself by recieving some low ratings! Time equals quality which equals better pictures. Isn't that what we are here for cool pics of joes and others joe verses. But I do agree if people can't behave just throw it out. Itll only bring more problems in the long run. By the way is this part of the down fall to getting a bigger joe dio verse. I remeber talking about joe dios getting bigger and the + and - about it. those are my two cents! cheers dread

[neapolitan joe]

My friends, my dear bros,
I really do not like the rating sistem now.
I always rate other pics "excellent" or "good" when I like them.
If I do not like other pics I do not comment them or vote for them.
Recently some stupid voted all my pics "terrible". Almost all! Why? :confused:
I prefer public post reply, so I can read other congrats or critiques: I think it is much more democratic.

[Black Knight]

I voted to remove the rating system, not really because of people abusing it, but more because I don't see it serving a purpose without some kind of "guide" to rate by. What does five stars mean? Wheres the line between five stars and four stars?

Not just that, but I've been a member here for awile now and I just learned we had a rating system.... I feel no loss by having it removed.

[Prince Adam]

It's far too subjective and unnccessary. It's obviously become a fairly big issue and I think we could just do without them so I voted yes.

[Flatline]

dump It!- If This Is The Only Way To Get Positive Or Negative Feed Back From The Lurkers Then It's A Step In The Right Imo. At Least This Way Those Of Us Who "actualy" Post And Try To Improve On Our Shots, Well Then Now We Will Know Why We Got Those The 2 Bars.....in Writing This Time. So Though I Like Seeing The 5 Bars For Me It's Far Better To Have The Feed Back.

[Pit Viper v2]

I voted to keep it. There may be people abusing it but to be perfectly blunt I think some people are just butthurt that others don't have the same taste as them.

[cyko]

I voted to ditch the ratings as they stand. Not that it really bothers me, personally, but I can see how it does others. It's certainly a bit arbitrary, a photo with 5 views and a 5 star rating versus an image with nearly 100 views and a moderate rating. In that example, the rating for the second photo seems more valid because of a higher view population. Then again, maybe the first photo was pushed off the index by someone uploading 10 images of a MARS Neo-Viper and nobody saw it.

Feedback is really the best system for criticism. If a ratings scale were connected to the feedback replies, and tallied for the image, it might be somewhat useful. But I also don't reply to every photo I view. I could think a photo is okay without replying to contribute to it's score. Similarly, if three posters have already offered advice to someone (please focus better next time), I'll skip adding my same 2 cents on top of that.

[Jay]

[QUOTE=Pit Viper v2]I voted to keep it. There may be people abusing it but to be perfectly blunt I think some people are just butthurt that others don't have the same taste as them.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that also an argument to ditch them?
Giving out poor ratings to someone who used, say, ninjas in their pic as opposed to straight-up military?

[rnrhero]

I voted for it to go away. I do like to use it when I don't really have a comment but can see that some don't like it/ abuse it. If we could set it up so it only allows voting at the end of a comment I would vote to Keep it.

[Urban Saboteur]

[QUOTE= Pit Viper v2]
I voted to keep it. There may be people abusing it but to be perfectly blunt I think some people are just butthurt that others don't have the same taste as them.

[QUOTE=Jay]Isn't that also an argument to ditch them?
Giving out poor ratings to someone who used, say, ninjas in their pic as opposed to straight-up military?[/QUOTE]

Please see the earlier threads regarding this poll. I would like to confirm that the removal of the ratings system is NOT because other people have different tastes. The removal is simply because the ratings system is widely open to abuse and continues to be used by someone else to downgrade photos for their own agenda.
Most of the vets have choosed to ignore this, hoping that whoever took the time to register a dummy account and go about downgrading photos would stop it and get a life... obviously that plan is now scrapped.

The bottom line is if everyone was willing to post up what they thought of the photo after rating it badly.. we wouldnt be at this stage.

I could rate a photo 1* if I didnt like it.. but i choose not to.. infact If I dont like something because of the style or choice of figures I simply wont comment on it but thats just me... commenting on a picture... out of focus, poor figure selection or posing... and giving constructive criticism is obviously what we are looking for.

Similarly if i posted what i thought was a good photo and someone rated it 1* because they didnt like it.. but commented 'i dont like this character and the angle is bad' I'd have to accept it was their taste.. hey everyone has different tastes.

We're trying to create an open community where by people can share their pictures and work. If it was simply a case of people thinking your picture was bad and stating it.. we again wouldnt be having this poll.
Our best interests are at the community as a whole and more particularly the newer fanbase questioning why the ratings system is so out of consistency with better pictures and/or being abused.

[QUOTE=troopsofdoom]There is no abuse of ratings going on. Half the photos posted should be getting an Average (3) rating just by simple definition of the word Average. The ratings are almost all 5, sometimes a 4. The rating system is not being used to attack other members, if anything people are being too nice with it's use.

I voted to keep the ratings. It's a lot of work to start altering the site just because some people think they deserve a perfect rating all the time.[/QUOTE]

I completely disagree. Abuse of ratings has gone on for some time now.
As you'll see above its not down to people not accepting the ratings on the photos simply because they 'think it deserves better' it comes down to people downgrading great pictures without saying why... ;)

[vader9900]

[QUOTE=Urban Saboteur]it comes down to people downgrading great pictures without saying why[/QUOTE]BINGO!

[troopsofdoom]

Could someone post links to examples of rating abuse?

In all honesty I’m not seeing the malicious behavior people are talking about. I’ve been coming to JoeDios for over a year now and I find the members to be very positive and helpful. I don’t recall ever seeing a 1 or 2 rating (though I haven’t looked at every photo). Guiltridden set a Terror Drome on fire and still got a 3 (average) rating.

Admin question: How can I check the individual rating votes on my photos? I can’t figure it out, I’d like to see if I got any votes from the “one point bomber”.

[vader9900]

[QUOTE=troopsofdoom]Could someone post links to examples of rating abuse?

In all honesty I’m not seeing the malicious behavior people are talking about. I’ve been coming to JoeDios for over a year now and I find the members to be very positive and helpful. I don’t recall ever seeing a 1 or 2 rating (though I haven’t looked at every photo). Guiltridden set a Terror Drome on fire and still got a 3 (average) rating.

Admin question: How can I check the individual rating votes on my photos? I can’t figure it out, I’d like to see if I got any votes from the “one point bomber”.[/QUOTE]
This is my most recent: http://www.joedios.com/dioramas/showimage.php?i=20306&catid=member&imageuser=1753
It was sitting at 4 votes with a 5.00 rating, some one just rated it a 2 (bad) which brought it down to 4.40 (5+5+5+5+2=22/5=4.40). Why is this a bad photo, please let me know!

[Prince Adam]

It could be because some one doesn't like the Resolute look, or they hate Duke, or they don't like you, etc. The list could really go on and on like that.

I think a lot of people really neglect all the effort that goes into this aspect of the hobby. There's settings, set ups, figures, accessorizing, lighting, possibly construction, time, lots of patientce, and that doesn't even include the actuall photography aspect. Then someone comes along and rates it a two or three because you used Snake Eyes v3 and they hate him. :rolleyes:

[Urban Saboteur]

[QUOTE=troopsofdoom]Could someone post links to examples of rating abuse?

In all honesty I’m not seeing the malicious behavior people are talking about. I’ve been coming to JoeDios for over a year now and I find the members to be very positive and helpful. I don’t recall ever seeing a 1 or 2 rating (though I haven’t looked at every photo). Guiltridden set a Terror Drome on fire and still got a 3 (average) rating.

Admin question: How can I check the individual rating votes on my photos? I can’t figure it out, I’d like to see if I got any votes from the “one point bomber”.[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Garamond]"Just because you don't see the malicious behaviour, doesn't mean to say it doesn't happen"[/FONT]

The fact is alot of it has been covered up well by the veterans here. We've tried to shield it in the last few years... why? because sometimes we've had 5 Star pictures of good quality go down to 2 stars because of it and its been called into question by members such as yourself that don't know any better and want an explanation.
Do we really have to go right back to examples of malicious behaviour to prove it? do we have to call out certain people who lurk behind the community and not own up to their obvious agenda.... We shouldn't want to bring up a darker side of the community, mainly because like Craig said.. it would put potential newer contributors off knowing this kind of stuff happens... infact i think we've lost a few people in the last 2 years because of the same issue.

We've removed the junk from the drawer and syphoned off the people with nothing but evil to bring to the forum. I think we are one step away from making this place a fun contributory place where criticisms can be accepted by people who value your contributions.. not by inconsiderate a$$hats who don't have the guts to post up. That's what we want.. we want you to post shots that you've put time and effort in.. and we want you to enjoy doing it and we want this to be the place you call your 'second home'

We could leave up the ratings system, but i have a horrible feeling it will come back and bite this community hard if we dont do something about it. I really do feel that now is the time for us to step it up a notch and rid us of the 'one shot bandit' and ratings abuse... if people care enough about the hours you put into your ideas... they will post up a comment and leave you feedback, and by care.. that also includes critique. I'll be one of the first to admit my shots could do with alot of improvement not just in focus but sometimes with setbuilding and surrounding.. I want to be better and i want this place to be the best.

when questioning the darker side of the community please stem to mind it can harm the solidarity and positivity we have spent the last few months creating. Without that the place wouldnt be as enjoyable, i'm happy to call each and everyone of you 'friend' and know that if ever we need help with something we can pm or email each other for help on projects, so not only do we get inspiration we offer support.

I'm pretty certain most of the vets.. and some of the new people agree. Theres still a good while left to run on this poll. I'm hoping that everyone who knows the experiences i'm talking about will see sense.

[neapolitan joe]

Secret rating it's a stupid thing here, I prefer public comment: rate'd be a weapon in the hands of envious/jealous guys (not vets). What do You think about it?

[Trench-Viper]

Insted of an average rating I think it would be beneficial that ratings are at the end or beginning of the post of those who comment. That way we can see who rated what. Open votes now!

[Roland da Thompson Gunner]

I'm not really sure, the ratings don't bug me at all, but I do think they're not a very good judge.

If they stay I won't care and if they leave I won't miss 'em

[Pit Viper v2]

[QUOTE=Jay]Isn't that also an argument to ditch them?
Giving out poor ratings to someone who used, say, ninjas in their pic as opposed to straight-up military?[/QUOTE]

I don't mean tastes as in subject matter but taste as in the photography itself.

[Hammerfel]

I think I have a solution to this. Please read my news post. Closing this thread as I've changed the paradigm.

http://www.joedios.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28273